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borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 16:57
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

His stock rises, his reputation enhanced week by week.

WGS really needs to sort this out and fast. Sacking/resignation aren't options...unless he's gutless. He needs to put right the dire mess he has got us into.

zorro_mfc Posted on 11/09/2010 16:59
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

who killed the club he left us a very very poor (caleb folan remember him) side strachan though it seems has made it worse neither takes any credit though.


Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 11/09/2010 16:59
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Given our form since he left you have to say its looks more and more like a mistake to scak him by the game.

red_shamrock Posted on 11/09/2010 17:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Stop using the word dire all the time.

Hes working on the telly now, he is history.
Look forward not backwards.

bevoboro Posted on 11/09/2010 17:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

His team selections are awful, just awful.

His tactics leave a lot to be desired as well.

I really think he needs to move on before he causes us any more damage. This is his team, and it is dreadful.

BoroAl Posted on 11/09/2010 17:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

GS had to save money. Strachan does'nt.

zorro_mfc Posted on 11/09/2010 17:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

It was a bigger mistake giveing him the job in the first place

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:01
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Yeah, you're right...we lost our 5th game away to Bristol last year...unluckily. However, at the time we did have 10 points on the board with a GD of PLUS 6.
I like you as well Zorro, but you are a Numpty.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:02
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Shamrock, "dire" is my word of the day.

red_shamrock Posted on 11/09/2010 17:03
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I knew you liked them.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 17:05
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"His team selections are awful, just awful.

His tactics leave a lot to be desired as well.

I really think he needs to move on before he causes us any more damage. This is his team, and it is dreadful."

Are you talking about Southgate or Strachan there?

bryan_munich Posted on 11/09/2010 17:05
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

His stock rises, his reputation enhanced week by week.
________________________________

Must be the natty attire he sports on the telly.

BoroAl Posted on 11/09/2010 17:08
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Well v.a.n. you're pet hate was sacked almost a year ago.So go on,guess.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 17:11
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Gareth Southgate isn't, and never will be, my "pet hate".

It's just very handy for people to ignore the dreadful atmosphere that engulfed the club during the final months of the relegation season, which had been building for a long, long time, and the period just before he was sacked.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:12
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Well, some of us did warn you.

BoroAl Posted on 11/09/2010 17:14
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad [^]

robbso Posted on 11/09/2010 17:16
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

To be honest results and performances under Strachan are chit.Does this make Southgate a good manager[:O]Truth is the way it"s going they have both been pish poor managers for Boro.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:16
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Even Beamish FFS


Link: Beamish, words of wisdom

bevoboro Posted on 11/09/2010 17:17
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I was talking about Strachan, as you well know.

They are both dreadful managers IMO.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 17:22
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

It's difficult to decipher that, bevoboro, as it seems like the kind of thread where everyone forgets how dreadful it was under the previous manager.

We aren't producing under Strachan, that much is clear, but we should be looking forwards. We should forget about Southgate because no matter how bad things may be at the moment, he most definitely isn't/wasn't the answer.

bevoboro Posted on 11/09/2010 17:24
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I see what you are saying now v_a_n [^]

I dont want Southgate back and I am seriously losing faith in Strachan to the point where I cant see where any improvement.

bryan_munich Posted on 11/09/2010 17:24
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Yeah, you're right...we lost our 5th game away to Bristol last year...unluckily. However, at the time we did have 10 points on the board with a GD of PLUS 6.
______________________________________

He was sacked after 13 games though.

aytonboro Posted on 11/09/2010 17:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

it seems the answer to our problems is niether southgate or strachan. lets not forget the way we wimped out of the premier league [|)]

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:26
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

AT which point we had about 23 points on the board I think.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 17:31
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Each poor performance/result is harder to take than the last one and with that comes the ebbing away of faith in the current set-up.

Remember, though, that we're still only five games in and there are still 123pts to play for.

At the moment, things look quite bleak. There are question marks still lingering over a few positions, what we need is movement in the loan-market to try and address those issues.

Look at what we can do next and accept that Strachan isn't going to be sacked. He will be given time by Gibson and his track-record suggests he can turn us around. It won't happen over-night, though.

br14 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:34
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Southgate was not as bad a manager as Strachan in terms of on the field tactics. Nowhere near as good in terms of player recruitment - at least superficially.

In their defence, both have had to deal with financial constraints.

But Strachans inability to sort things out on the pitch means he should go.

He can't put it right because he's completely out of his depth against managers like Warnock - who has years of experience at this level.

But worse, he can barely compete with new lads coming through as managers for the first time. They outshine him tactically in pretty well every game.

Almost anyone else would do. Mowbray, Curbishley, Zola. Even if only to create a bit of belief for a few weeks.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:35
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

As I said in the OP, Strachan needs to sort it out. Less cr@p about real men and leaders..more winning.

bryan_munich Posted on 11/09/2010 17:44
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

If Gibson sacked Gareth after 13, cos it looked like we weren't going to challenge the top, as is claimed, then ( notwithstanding) logic dictates Wee Gordy should have up to another 8 to sort things out. So that's Norwich away on Oct 23 then. Obviously if we continue to fall then the axe could fall sooner. F**k knows who comes in mind.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 17:49
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

It was stupid to sack Southgate, and it would also be stupid to sack Strachan at this point in the season. He has just blown the bank on his players...it's his responsibility to get things working.
Southgate did...he bounced back from relegation and got the team winning/scoring. Time for Strachan to get it right.
Who else would want the job?

I suppose Sir Gareth is still on the payroll.

bryan_munich Posted on 11/09/2010 17:51
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Southgate did...he bounced back from relegation and got the team winning/scoring.
____________________________________
Albeit heavily reliant on jinky

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 18:23
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Well, the same personnel failed to do so well when he'd gone. Perhaps it was the way they were set up to play.
I think half the problem is that Strachan believed his own hype and instead of bringing about change slowly, he basically insulted most of the squad and intimated that they weren't man enough for the job.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 18:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad - They'd proved themselves not to be man enough for the job time and time again.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 18:29
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Nope, they lost a couple of games. They were collecting two points a game more or less. Promotion form.
I look forward to the current squad matching their achievements, don't you?

Revol_Tees Posted on 11/09/2010 18:45
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

01 Jones
06 Pogatetz
12 St. Ledger
25 Williams
31 Wheater
07 Yeates
16 O'Neil (Digard 79)
20 Arca
34 Osbourne
09 Lita
33 Kitson

The team that battered QPR at Loftus Road last November. Mostly Southgate's players.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 18:55
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Nope, they lost a couple of games. They were collecting two points a game more or less. Promotion form.
I look forward to the current squad matching their achievements, don't you?"

A couple of games? That is very selective, to say the least. The fact is we started to fall apart again when Huth left, the signs were there for all to see. They weren't good enough and were as close to the middle of the table as they were to the top when Gareth departed.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 19:03
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Wrong again, they won two of the last three...6 points from 9, consistent with the season up to then. Still, like I said, I look forward to the current squad matching that.

br14 Posted on 11/09/2010 19:05
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

This, "were as close to the middle of the table" argument just doesn't hold water.

We never looked like having a playoff spot under Strachan, and at least Southgate looked like he had a clue.

Those who argue this point consider that Southgates dismissal and Strachans appointment along with his friends will have cost several million pounds.

Had Southgate stayed that money could have been spent on players to strengthen what was a half decent squad. Instead Southgate was starved of funds as they searched for a replacement.

The Strachan appointment was a disaster. Southgate should have been fired as soon as we were relegated, or not until December.

Southgate should never have been appointed. But that decision was probably also financially driven. And the first sign the club was in trouble.

Right now I think Strachan should go. It's less of a bet to get a known quantity like Mowbray or Curbishley than it is to run the risk that Strachan continues to run down what is left.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 19:37
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Had Southgate stayed that money could have been spent on players to strengthen what was a half decent squad. Instead Southgate was starved of funds as they searched for a replacement."

And you'd have trusted Southgate to spend that money wisely, would you?

As for the "middle of the table argument just not holding water", well it does hold water because it's a fact.

What makes people so sure that Curbishley, Brown, Mowbray, Zola, or any of the other names thrown around on here, would do a better job in our current situation?

The_263 Posted on 11/09/2010 19:39
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Is this an official line that FMTTM_ADMIN were completely opposed to Gibson getting shot of Southgate?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 11/09/2010 19:41
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Strachan replacing southgate is a bit like Poland being liberated from the Nazis by Stalin. Except in football terms rather than life and death and oppression and stuff.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 20:06
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Tu te tum, yes viv's, I would have trusted Southgate more with the transfer kitty.

263, no. I wasn't admin when I held that particular view last year. I'm not sure all of them would agree with me now either.

red_shamrock Posted on 11/09/2010 20:10
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

That was Southgates undoing his transfers, and letting Morrrison go.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 11/09/2010 20:11
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I'm just thankful about some of southgates targets who slipped away. James harper and that Ginger who slotted straight into wigans reserves. I wouldn't send the bloke out to buy a pint of milk.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 20:13
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Southgate's undoing was Alves...pure and simple.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 20:14
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I think there was a lot more to Southgate's undoing than Afonso Alves, borolad.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 11/09/2010 20:14
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

And that part where he sold the midfield.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 20:21
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

We'd have been fine with GON, Tuncay etc..the problem was largely Alves. The budget blown on a top striker who didn't score any goals.
Replace Alves with a couple of half decent strikers and we'd have stayed up easily.

I think that the bigger error was not giving Schwartz the contract he wanted. I suspect that both the Alves and the Schwartz decisions were made over his head.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 20:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I don't think we could afford to give Schwarzer what he wanted, though, and he was probably looking for a fresh start. Which, to be fair to him, is completely understandable.

I don't buy into the Alves deal being done behind Southgate's back. I think we needed goals and all the lads Gareth went for didn't deliver.

Alves was the last in a long line, a line that includes Mido, Aliadiere, Lee Dong-Gook, Emnes, Lita and Folan.

atkingson Posted on 11/09/2010 20:30
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

What do you expect Strachan too do with those lacklustre players? We have no wingers one full back who's sh*t and we play four defensive midfielders,never mind laughing stock of the north east,where the laughing stock of the championship.Our team essentially looks like this...
(DM= defensive mid)
(CB=centre back)

................GK...........................
...CB............CB........CB..........CB....
..DM...........DM.........DM...........CM....
..........Fatc*nt.......Midget...............


borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 20:57
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Not giving Schwartz the deal he deserved cost us more.
Apart from anything else, do you remember the save he pulled off at the Riverside when we drew 0-0. The ball looked a cert for the back of the net, and most of us were on our feet thinking we'd scored, when a big mit appeared from nowhere and tipped it away.

That "goal" alone would have kept us up.
Ironic innit.

red_shamrock Posted on 11/09/2010 20:58
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

What about Mido Borolad..he let cattermole go too.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 21:05
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Mido was a clanger, I agree. I'm not sure that letting Clattermole go was a massive mistake.

I still maintain that the failure of Alves is what cost us our place at the top table. The Schwartz thing is the second largest factor. It's all about goals scored vs goals conceded at the end of the day.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 11/09/2010 21:06
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

He XXXXXXed all his money away on expensive forwards at the expense of the midfield, and had a terrible eye for players, hoyte, digard, emnes, oneill etc.
In the end we were just inept and completely unable to establish any sort of meaningful attacking play.
He was an awful awful manager.
It's all been said loads of times before. The only reason I think people defend him, is due to them not liking mcclaren, and so not being able to comprehend that the man who replaced him did such an awful job.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 21:06
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"That "goal" alone would have kept us up.
Ironic innit."

One incident, though, and there are numerous examples of the strikers Southgate assembled missing sitters that would have kept us up.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 21:32
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

That's sort of the point I'm making. The team that were being so maligned were actually only a hair's breadth from being in the Premiership for another year...another year of struggle mind.

A 12 goal striker instead of Alves would probably have done it.

Letting Viduka go made sense. Letting Schwarz go didn't...and time has proven this case.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 21:37
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I agree with you about Viduka, but I really don't think we had much choice with Schwarzer.

I said at the time that James Beattie would have been a superb signing for us, but we went with Alves instead and it was a disaster. I can't pretend I wasn't chuffed when we signed him, though.

Once Schwarzer had gone we should have been straight in for Paul Robinson. Southgate thought otherwise, showing faith in our reserve 'keepers, and was proved wrong.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 21:54
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Schwarzer would have stayed if we had offered him a decent deal...4 years or whatever.
In retrospect, given that he is still playing at the highest level, it would have made sense...staying in the Premiership would have paid for it presumably.

br14 Posted on 11/09/2010 22:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Schwarzer would have stayed if we had offered him a decent deal"

The fact is the club didn't have the money to keep him.

Everything over the past few years is about cash - or rather the lack of it. Check out the documents posted at Companies House for the club if you don't believe me.

A keeper like Schwarzer will cost you at lesat 2 million pounds a year. Four year deal 8 million.

We didn't have that kid of money. The club is really owned by Barclays Bank.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 11/09/2010 22:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

You'd be hard-pushed to find any club in the Premier League who would be prepared to offer a four-year deal to someone of Schwarzer's age.

I think he knew we wouldn't be able to meet his demands and had already set his heart on a new challenge.

We just never replaced the quality we allowed to leave, whether it be Schwarzer or Viduka or Boateng, properly. I don't doubt that Southgate did his absolute best when it came to trying to replace said players but, unfortunately, it just never came off for him.

borolad259 Posted on 11/09/2010 22:03
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I'm not convinced. It's about priorities.
Maybe I have a goalie bias because my lad plays in goal, but I remember even at school, when picking teams, make sure you get the best keeper as a priority.
Anyroad, I suspect we lost more than the 8 million by dropping down a division.

borobadge Posted on 12/09/2010 11:09
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

he will be enjoying his breakfast this morning.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 11:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

The sun is shining on Harrogate.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 11:34
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borobadge-he will be enjoying his breakfast this morning.

Why do you keep posting the same sentence, does it please you seeing Boro struggle just to try and justify the inept ex Boro captain should still be at our club.

Southgate got us in this division, broke bad records along the way, made more bad signings than good, weak pathetic/spineless team,tactics/substitutions/interviews, etc were awful.

Yes he should be remember for lifting our only trophy, along with the other players that acheived the honour, no more,though you would think he scored the winner aginst Brighton, scored both goals in the final as well as getting MOTM award.

He was a good defender,end of,but to put him on a pedastal because his replacement is doing no better is disgraceful

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 12/09/2010 11:45
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Sick of these stupid lazy posts

Just because Strachan was a bad appointment doesn't change the fact Southgate was clueless and put us in this posistion

borobadge Posted on 12/09/2010 12:04
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"borobadge-he will be enjoying his breakfast this morning.


i can assure you i'm not enjoying mine, and as things bottom out, i would assess that Sir Gareth will be enjoying his, its a simple observation and not too difficult to understand.

strachan will be choking on his porridge, i would much prefer it wasnt that way, i would love the sunshine to be over his house all day everyday...

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 12/09/2010 14:15
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

The failure of both managers is there in black and white...

The difference for me is, Southgate was entering his first job in management in a very good league where, in terms of spending, we could no longer compete with the majority of the competition.

Strachan, is a man with over 10 years experience in management, taking over a team in the upper reaches of an inferior division - a division where we have more spending power than almost anyone.

The Southgate haters thought it would be simple / couldn't get any worse. Doesn't look so simple now..

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 14:23
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"a division where we have more spending power than almost anyone."

We've only had that "power" because we had to sell our best player.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 12/09/2010 14:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

The damage Southgate did to this club is terminal

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 15:14
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

No, but the damage done by people like you PAMH, Happy, Not Smog and all the others calling for Southgate to be sacked last year...that might take a long time to put right.
"Fan" power, and I use the term "fan" advisedly, has a lot to answer for in this case.

Like BB, I have been absolutely consistent that I want the current manager to start getting it right, and frankly, I've been choking on my porridge week in, week out, since the ill-advised change of manager last year.

I make no apologies at all for being an admirer of Gareth Southgate, and whilst I am pleased for him that the damage done to his reputation is being repaired week by week, I am extremely XXXXXXed off that our current manager appears to be failing on his own terms.
Capiche?.

allied_assault Posted on 12/09/2010 15:21
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Pogatetz - you say that but what about Bryan Robson.

He got us relegated with the best attacking side we have had for ages.

Robson was allowed to get us back up and Southgate who was 1 point of top and had won 4 away from home was fired.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 15:27
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad - How on earth is the "damage done to his reputation being repaired week by week"?

He'll always have an awful transfer record on his CV and he'll always have a relegation on there too, despite spending millions and inheriting a very productive youth set-up.

The fans didn't get Southgate the sack. What got him the sack was the relegation, the transfer record, the tactics, the poor football, the patronising post-match quotes and the brittle nature of his team's mentality.

I adore Southgate for what he did for us as a player, and commend him for his first two years in management in what were difficult circumstances, he will ALWAYS be a Boro legend and i'd love to see a statue of him with the League Cup aloft outside the stadium, but to keep harping back to his spell in charge does nobody any favours.

He's gone, it never worked out for him as a manager here. We have to accept that and, however tough it may seem, move on and offer Strachan the same patience and support we offered Southgate.


borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 15:29
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Viv's I can't take you seriously, sorry.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 15:34
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Why not, borolad?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 15:35
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

double post

degsyspesh Posted on 12/09/2010 15:37
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Viv - spot on. The fact that BL259 doesn't agree just reaffirms that what you're saying is right.

Just because Strachan is so far proving to be pretty crap does not in any way enhance Southgate's reputation as a manager.

Chappy112 Posted on 12/09/2010 15:48
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Apart from anything else, do you remember the save he pulled off at the Riverside when we drew 0-0. The ball looked a cert for the back of the net, and most of us were on our feet thinking we'd scored, when a big mit appeared from nowhere and tipped it away.

That "goal" alone would have kept us up"

Not very good at maths are you?

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 18:15
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Maybe not, but the point still remains. Good keepers make a huge difference to a side. Turnbull and Brad weren't in the same league...that kind of thing makes defenders nervous.
I think a win in that Fulham game would have made all the difference to our end of season run..

It's quite easy to understand how Southgate's reputation is enhanced as time goes on. He was clearly performing better as a manager than Gordon Strachan is now. Really simple stuff.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/09/2010 18:41
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

'His stock rises, his reputation enhanced week by week.'

Amongst the feeble minded and those with the memory of a goldfish.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 18:46
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Just because Strachan is so far proving to be pretty crap does not in any way enhance Southgate's reputation as a manager"

Disagree entirely.

Southgates performance as manager was governed in large measure by the lack of funding for player recruitment.

Strachan is basically suffering the same problem. He has the contacts to recruit players but hasn't been able to get what he needs because of lack of funds.

Having said that, Southgate seemed to have a better grasp of how to win in English football.

Strachan has no clue. We switched a manager who got us relegated by two points in the Premier League, to one who will get us relegated in the Championship if things continue as they are.

We have Burnley and Reading at home next. Two teams that have started reasonably well.

Would you put money on us winning those games?

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 18:54
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Corcaigh, I suspect that in the world of professional footballers and managers, his stock is improving. Having said that, they are a feeble minded bunch.

degsyspesh Posted on 12/09/2010 19:07
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Southgates performance as manager was governed in large measure by the lack of funding for player recruitment."

Seriously?? There was only a lack of funding once he'd blown countless millions on utter shoite.

Errrrr, off the top of my head:

Alves, Mido, Digard, Emnes, - there's about 30M of the crap ones never mind the wages that went with them.

I'm in now way sticking up for Strachan but he has nothing coming even close to the funding the Southgate got

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:17
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I'd have Digard and Emnes in the side ahead of some of the present squad.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:23
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

viv_andersons_nana I wouldn't even reply to such stupid posts.

One thing is having a debate another is someone who posts state the "damage done to his reputation being repaired week by week"?

This is a bloke who bought very,very badly,built a spineless/gutless/winless/scoreless team, got us relegated without a fight.
Repeatably said the same after match interviews 'we will sit down watch the video and learn from this'

Whatever strachan acheives from here on trying to make good of what southgate done is unbelievable, the bloke was a desent player but he has set the club back decades.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:26
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Didn't the baffoon waste more money in St Ledger, and to think the bloke himself was a CB, unreal

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 19:26
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

A lot of us would have had Digard in the side if he could ever string two games together. He was constantly injured. He was on a Premier League wage, there comes a time when you have to make a clean break and he had to go.

Do we really have to go through Southgate's transfers, again, to show how much he wasted?

Schwarzer may well have saved us a few more points during the relegation season, but that logic is equally applicable to the strikers that Southgate brought in not scoring goals.

You could also question why he felt it not necessary to replace Schwarzer, Boateng and/or Rochemback.

Easy Posted on 12/09/2010 19:28
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"You could also question why he felt it not necessary to replace Schwarzer, Boateng and/or Rochemback."

Maybe that's because Gibbo wouldn't give him any money to replace them...

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:33
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I said earlier in the thread, relegation was largely down to a failing Alves...with the failure to keep Schwartz being the second largest factor.
I'm not sure how much say Sir Gareth had in either of those.

Strachan has only bought maybe one player that would make Southgate's team...and even he (MacDonald) isn't exactly pulling up trees.

Luke Young, GON, Tuncay...which of Strachan's many signings compares favourably?


erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:40
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Southgate said in an interview 'I will not resign, I am a proud man,what message does that send out to my children that there dad is a quitter'

Yet now you're stating he allowed the club to buy and sell players above his head, he's a proud man who won't quit on one hand and on the other hand he's a yes man, so much for 'sir gareth'

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 19:46
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad - Are you seriously going to compare the financial state of club when Southgate signed Tuncay and Young to the state it was in when Strachan arrived?

We don't have any money because we got relegated. Southgate was provided with enough money to keep us up, other managers have achieved it by spending a lot less than he did.

Even when we went down, Gibson still handed over 5m to spend. What did Gareth do? St.Ledger and Yeates.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 19:53
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"he's a proud man who won't quit on one hand and on the other hand he's a yes man, so much for 'sir gareth'"

He was clearly a "yes" man. Surely that much is obvious.

A youngish man given responsibility for a Premier League club, with Lamb and Gibson - two blokes who are more fans than businessmen who have been with the club for decades as his bosses.

Where was he going to get the contacts to organise player recruitment? He had to rely on the club for that.

Yes he spent money badly. Or at least money was spent badly during his time at the club.

But he still kept us in the league (just) until the money ran out that last season.

He's on record as wanting to buy midfielders but they never arrived. We couldn't even compete with Wigan. His big mistake was in letting Cattermole go.

The reality is that with one notable exception under McClaren we consistently struggled in the Premier League since arriving in the division. As have a host of other clubs.

Southgate was no McClaren, but he wasn't as bad as some make out.

Anyway that's all pointless history. The real question is Strachan the man to take us forward. Doesn't seem so on current evidence.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 19:56
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"current evidence."

Five games.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"We don't have any money because we got relegated"

Only partly true. Tired of saying it but the club had 90 million pounds worth of debt - most of which Mr Gibson is still stuck with. There's a huge mortgage on the club, and he turned 50 million of the debt to Bulkhaul into shares.

And in the last season in the PL, Lamb had managed to create a situation in which almost all the TV money had to be spend on debt repayment. (Payments of 27 million due that year alone).

There was very little money for players. Which is why a left back - claimed to have little talent by some on here - was called into action in central midfield. And why we failed to compete with Wigan for Watson, and failed to buy Harper from Reading.

Southgate was not a good manager, but he kept us in the division as long as moderate cash was available. The last season he hardly had any cash to spend and couldn't hold on to players like Boateng (who ended up at Hull on more money than Boro could pay).

In that last season we narrowly missed survival. A single additional win would have seen us stay up.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Vivs, that's why it's hard to take you seriously. You want the parameters to fit your argument. Southgate made some very good signings. Strach hasn't really made any.

Erimus, not sure how you can use that name with a straight face. YOu were one of the biggest whingers during outhgate's tenure. You and Viv are both desperately hanging onto the idea that you were right to want Southgate out, despite the fact that all evidence points to the contrary.
"Fans" like you, who applied the pressure for Southgate to go, are responsible for the cack we are in now.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:02
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Five games."

You're not counting last seasons fiasco then?

Barry Robson at left back. Gives away a penalty. Game over.

Who put in him that position, having loaned out two left sided defenders?

Easy Posted on 12/09/2010 20:04
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Fans" like you, who applied the pressure for Southgate to go, are responsible for the cack we are in now."

I agree with that 100%

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 20:15
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad - You'd be hard-pushed to find any threads where I was demanding the sacking of Southgate whilst he was in charge. I was disappointed with the performances, relegation, what he did in the transfer-window before he was sacked. I supported him while he was here because he was our manager and if Gibson thought, at the time, that Southgate could get us back up then who am I to question that? I never "demanded" that Southgate be sacked so you're wrong with regards to that.

Forget about Southgate, anyway, it doesn't matter. What matters is Gordon Strachan. He came in on a three-year contract to work for a loyal chairman who will give him time. The only way to improve the squad was to sell Adam Johnson and re-invest what he made. A lot of people commented on the mentality of the squad, the over-reliance on youth, the lack of anything like a midfield, no leaders on the pitch, players being too comfortable under Southgate and not working hard enough. Strachan is trying to change that. He has built the spine of the team. Creating a successful team doesn't happen over-night and it will take a lot longer than he's had so far.

It's not about wanting "parameters that fit my argument", it's about giving Strachan time to build something. I don't want to see another manager sacked, especially one who has just been allowed to re-invest 10m in the squad. To sack a manager five games into a new season is ludicrous.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 20:20
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Fans" like you, who applied the pressure for Southgate to go, are responsible for the cack we are in now."

Maybe it's 'fans' like you, who continually harp on about the past and how lovely it all was under Gareth Southgate, that are responsible for the overwhelmingly negative atmosphere that engulfs the club right now.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:27
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"that are responsible for the overwhelmingly negative atmosphere that engulfs the club right now"

No. It's the fact we're 20th with four points, having scored the grand total of two goals.

Go on with your faith in Gordon though. You never know he might even turn it around.

I'd change things now while there's still time. We have a half decent squad if we had a manager who knew how to use the players he'd bought, and wasn't so pig headed he lets useful players go on loan or warm the bench.

That's Gordons problem. It's not that he couldn't do the job. It's that his personality is so single minded he can't get over his own prejudices.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 20:33
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

br14 - What I was implying with the line about the negative atmosphere is that that statement is as nonsensical as the suggestions that others have made about the fans getting Southgate sacked.

I will go with my faith in Gordon, I certainly won't be making any judgements five games into a league campaign.

Do you know Strachan personally, br14? What kind of "prejudices" are you referring to?

He has his way of doing things, that is why he was hired.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 12/09/2010 20:35
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

100 [8)]

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:39
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

For the umpteenth time, I don't want Strachan sacked...and I certainly didn't want Southgate sacked.
I want Strachan to at least get near the performances that we had early last season, and to at least deliver on the objective of making us hard to beat.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:40
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Erimus, not sure how you can use that name with a straight face. YOu were one of the biggest whingers during outhgate's tenure. You and Viv are both desperately hanging onto the idea that you were right to want Southgate out, despite the fact that all evidence points to the contrary.

borolad259 and what exactly are you doing????????

Think my point was to get rid of southgate during the summer, and not always compare him to others, as what is being done on a regular basis.

DGL anyone

rivals_oldschool Posted on 12/09/2010 20:40
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Pointless to sack Strachan now.

It's literally back to square one again if we do. The whole point of him was to try and pluck Scottish talent and win back promotion without breaking the bank.

If he can't do it, with the current crop nobody else will. If we don't make the play offs at the end then yeah, get rid in the summer.

Oh and this argument about Southgate is pointless. He still had remnants of our prem talent to call upon in the Championship yet still we got di*ked by teams like West Brom.

F**k Southgate, he was terrible.


borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:45
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Erimus, I'm singing the praises of a great former player and manager. I'm also expressing a hope that the present incumbent gets his act together.
As a side issue I'm rebuffing the nonsense that Southgate's detractors try to smear his reputation with. OK?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 12/09/2010 20:46
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

You don't want Strachan sacked, borolad, that's fair enough.

But why, ten minutes after a defeat, start a thread entitled 'One Gareth Southgate...'?

You're harping on about the past, let's forget it and show Strachan the kind of patience we showed Gareth. It's hard because Strachan doesn't have the affinity with the club that Gareth had but it's no good looking back.

There are still 123 points to play for and we have two home games coming up.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:46
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

For the umpteenth time, I don't want Strachan sacked...and I certainly didn't want Southgate sacked.
I want Strachan to at least get near the performances that we had early last season, and to at least deliver on the objective of making us hard to beat

Strange considering the thread you started and it's well into it's 100th post

degsyspesh Posted on 12/09/2010 20:48
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

We are where we are because our money supply has been cut off and we have had two crap managers.

Don't kid yourself that if Southgate was still here that we'd be in any better a position.

Strachan being crap doesn't make Southgate good, the two issues are not related.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:49
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I meant his prejudices against just about anyone that doesn't play the game the way he wants to play it.

Doesn't like counter attack. So no pace in the side to speak of. Wants to use attacking fullbacks. So plays Robson back there against the top side in the Championship.

I can sort of see what he's trying to do. And if it ever comes off we'll dominate games.

His approach is based on not losing by winning.

Whereas these days most managers win by not losing.

If you're Man Utd or Chelsea there's no doubt you can play you're own style.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:53
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Maybe I started the thread because each defeat at the moment reminds me of the anger and frustration I felt at this time last year when twerps came on here, week after week, banging on about how GS had to go.
I'm still angry that the chairman felt pressurised by those fans to sack a man who was, is and always will be a club legend. I'm still angry because each defeat reminds me of the way we dismantled teams at this time last year, scoring for fun.
You get the picture? I'm angry and this is a message board where I can vent my spleen.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 20:57
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"the chairman felt pressurised by those fans to sack a man who was, is and always will be a club legend"

The Chairman was pressured by the lack of bums on seats. Don't be fooled into thinking it was anything else.

And Strachan has generated as much apathy among paying fans as Southgate - which is why he'll go if things don't pick up soon.

Check out home attendances at the clubs website over the past two seasons. It wasn't the thrashing at home by WBA that caused Southgates demise. It was the effect that game had on gate receipts.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 21:25
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

We're all angry & upset at the present position we are in, no team has a divine right to play in the top division, these things are to be earned, southgate was a good player for the club, but to keep defending him and bringing his name to the forum as if he is blameless is unreal ,although you're not alone in this.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 21:39
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

As long as there are people on here blaming Southgate for ruining the club, I'll more than likely be around to argue the toss.

I was so positive at this time last year. Even the Bristol City defeat just seemed an annoying setback. We had pace, we could hurt teams, and did. We should have done better (Bristol/Cov) but at least we were racking up the points.

erimus74 Posted on 12/09/2010 21:43
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Borolad, we maybe were scoring goals for fun but when the 'big must win games' came along we blew it, and it happened in both divisions, not just the PL.

red_shamrock Posted on 12/09/2010 21:46
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

He made too many mistakes in the transfer Market and let some young uns go he shouldnt have, he bought a an expensive CF and dropped him, dragged him off and mismanaged him, spent all that money and didnt know how to handle a player... the bloke knee jerked and made stranger decisions than Strachan.

Good Captain proud of him but he`s been gone a while so get over it...his record shows he failed as a manager at Middlesbrough

degsyspesh Posted on 12/09/2010 21:53
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

BL259 - while I don't disagree with what you're saying, you are conveniently forgetting that at this time last year our best three players were Huth, Tuncay and Johnson. They are now long gone and have been replaced by relative dross.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 21:55
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Robson, Boyd, Thompson, McDonald, McManus are hardly dross.

And anyway, we do ok in the first half of games. It's only once we're found out we get demolished.

That's managements problem.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 21:59
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

I'm not forgetting that at all.

I'm aware that we move on...I hope that happy days are here again soon.

Still, it won't stop me singing "There's only one Gareth Southgate"...it reminds me of when we won games full stop. That stuff about "must win" games is horse-sh1t. Is there not an imperative to win every game?

degsyspesh Posted on 12/09/2010 22:00
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"Robson, Boyd, Thompson, McDonald, McManus are hardly dross"

Over the last games I would tend to disagree with you on that one. I'm not saying that they won't come good, but they are nowhere near performing to the level that particularly Huth and Johnson were at the start of last season.

red_shamrock Posted on 12/09/2010 22:04
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Got to win home games..they are a must win game..restores confidence to play at home after the Ipswich disappointment and sends the fans home happy enough to return for the next game.

This season I only hope we start finding some home form..it may stop us from going down.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 22:11
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Two home games to come...both "must win" you'd have thought. It would certainly be a tonic for everyone, not least the players, who must be feeling pretty sick at the moment.

Strachans_Tossed_Caber Posted on 12/09/2010 22:12
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

borolad you smell of poo.

red_shamrock Posted on 12/09/2010 22:14
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Its a way back for them..builds a rapport and confidence and the thing called consistency.
Must win games both of them.

br14 Posted on 12/09/2010 22:16
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"they are nowhere near performing to the level that particularly Huth and Johnson were at the start of last season."

Nor are they ever likely to.

It's about tactics. All players have weaknesses - even the very best. A good manager analyses his teams strengths and sets up the team to maximise the opportunities afforded by opposition weaknesses.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but I wouldnt be surprised if Warnock attacked down our left to expose Robsons inability as a full back. Or took advantage of other obvious failings in our squad - O'Neill is not fully recovered for example.

Who did we play on the left? Did we have any natural left footers on the field?

Strachan has admitted he's not one for tactics. His approach I think is to dominate and let the other manager worry about tactics.

I just don't think that works anymore because most managers these days aren't just about motivating players but also are taught tactical awareness.

He's not the only one mind. Southgate wasn't that hot either. Took ages to fix the problems against Coventry last season for example caused by Colemans half time changes. It stuck out in my mind because we absolutely dominated the first half and capitulated in the second.

borolad259 Posted on 12/09/2010 22:26
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Yet my good mate at Cov didn't rate Coleman at all, and thought we were robbed there that day. He was laughing his head off because he couldn't believe how lucky they were.

Tunjoe_Sanli Posted on 12/09/2010 23:42
One Gareth Southgate, there\'s only one Gareth Southgate...

....


Link: Gareth

Strachans_Tossed_Caber Posted on 12/09/2010 23:50
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Absolute legend like.


Link: gareth

borobadge Posted on 13/09/2010 09:20
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"must win games"...[:D]

now we look to just score in A game....

Buddy Posted on 13/09/2010 09:27
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

"He came in on a three-year contract"

Is that true? Is it three calendar years, or till June 2012? Possibly not as bad as I'd feared in terms of the pay-off.

emphony Posted on 13/09/2010 09:34
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Good link Borolad. Did anybody take Jim up on his offer:

"Come on then clever boogers lets get your names for the next manager FFS we were here last year with the same fickle F*****s calling for the Gates head and we came out of it. We'll be fine and if were not I will invite you all to come round my house and shoite on my doorstep."

[:D]

borolad259 Posted on 13/09/2010 09:51
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Here's a good example of why this thread exists. Lisbon, an excellent charity fundraiser and good egg, but prone to spouting nonsense like this

"Southgate was the biggest disaster in recent times and put us where we are now."

Southgate ensured the survival of our club by keeping us in the Premiership the season before we were relegated. Had we gone down then, the consequences would have been far worse I believe.
He does not deserve to have his reputation attacked by Boro fans. Boro fans should have more respect for a Boro legend.

I really do look forward to the day that we can call Strachan, or any of his imports a Boro legend. None of them are fit to prepare Sir Gareth's weetabix at the moment.

sasboro1 Posted on 13/09/2010 09:54
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

lisbon had faith in southgate the day before he got sacked.

I suspect peopel wil be doing a similar thing this time and once strachan has gone will be not as complimentary. Gill and Brownlee are the worst culprits


emphony Posted on 13/09/2010 09:56
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Southgate is a Boro legend and one of the greatest captains we have ever had. Unfortunately, he was put in an impossible position and that reputation was always going to take a beating. To expect a player to step into the management seat, cut the wage bill, keep the club stable and learn the job all at once is a tough ask. With this in mind he did a good job, but he should never have been put in that situation. Also, as an intelligent bloke, he shouldnt have allowed himself to be put in that position either.

borolad259 Posted on 13/09/2010 10:04
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Given that he was put in that position, and had to deal with the financial constraints as a rookie manager in a difficult league, I think he deserves our respect. He tried to have football played positively. The fact that we were relegated after two seasons I don't think was entirely his fault. Given that he was doing a decent job for the first 13 games of last season, I think he was badly treated.
The way things have gone since his departure only goes to show just what a great job he was doing under the circumstances.
He made mistakes, sure, but all managers do...even the best.

sasboro1 Posted on 13/09/2010 10:07
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

my theory is that gibson wanted strachan the summer we got relegated but strachan wanted some time out. meanwhile we sell the players off and once strachan is ready to manage we sack strachan and most of the selling is done

Buddy Posted on 13/09/2010 10:08
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

That combined with the refinancing sas. I think when Gibson said in the summer about realising we need more experience, and we all thought he meant the midfield, he actually meant the manager.

Algarve Posted on 13/09/2010 10:18
One Gareth Southgate, there's only one Gareth Southgate...

Anyone who even hints that Southgate has played any part in Strachan winning 8 games from 40 is seriously deluded