permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/1943797
kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 15/06/2010 15:52
The British Army shamed.

The Saville report is pretty damning stuff.


Link: link.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 15:57
The British Army shamed.

Oh no its started, the Irish victim fest.
So you want all terrorist activities to have amnesty status but no reciprocal status.

NedKat Posted on 15/06/2010 16:00
The British Army shamed.

The tension was enormous on that day. A baying crowd on a tight street, threats coming from all angles, roofs and windows where gunmen could have you right in their sights ... A huge mistake was made, but until you've been in that situation, please try to understand it a little bit more ...

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:05
The British Army shamed.

"None of the soldiers fired in response to attacks by petrol bombers or stone throwers

Some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying

None of the casualties was posing a threat .... or doing anything that would justify their shooting"

TurnbullsCanz Posted on 15/06/2010 16:06
The British Army shamed.

Ton.

GillZean Posted on 15/06/2010 16:07
The British Army shamed.

Easiest ton of the year.[8D]

MawTheMerrier Posted on 15/06/2010 16:07
The British Army shamed.

Army were sent in to do a job and they did it. The shame is that they were sent into a civilian dispute.

No winners that day.

Thankfully it is all history.


LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 16:08
The British Army shamed.

We are talking about bloody sunday oldsmoggie.
14 murdered. Victims indeed. Innocent. A pity it took this long to admit the guilt.
At least its now done.
Time to move on.

Fletch Posted on 15/06/2010 16:08
The British Army shamed.

Can we now have a ridiculously expensive and lengthy inquiry to why Martin McGuinness was carrying a gun (and used it) that day and being second in command of the Derry Brigade doesn't count as a legitimate excuse?

maxi_levey Posted on 15/06/2010 16:08
The British Army shamed.

Yep the old bullet in the BACK.

proudas Posted on 15/06/2010 16:09
The British Army shamed.

yep 100 innocent squaddies

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:10
The British Army shamed.

Best day's recruitment the IRA ever had.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 16:10
The British Army shamed.

proudas " should of shot more of the irish barstewards 100 soldiers killed that year"

Don`t you think the killing of 100 soldiers that year might have something to do with what happened on that day ??????

Nero Posted on 15/06/2010 16:11
The British Army shamed.

I wonder if the IRA and Sinn Fein apologies for all those innocent people killed in their cowardly car bombings over the years.


proudas Posted on 15/06/2010 16:11
The British Army shamed.

nah not at all a few more bloody sundays job done

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 15/06/2010 16:13
The British Army shamed.

oldsmoggy

Would you not feel victimised if your son/father/brother was shot dead for no reason whatsoever?


speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:13
The British Army shamed.

Like this you mean Nero?


Link: Apology

MawTheMerrier Posted on 15/06/2010 16:13
The British Army shamed.

At a time when we should be forgiving past errors and building on the peace in NI, i find it somehow 'shamefull' that the War Criminal Tony Blair ordered this inquiry.

scobba Posted on 15/06/2010 16:13
The British Army shamed.

wonder how many will get banned because of this thread when it gets heated

Genghis_Khan Posted on 15/06/2010 16:14
The British Army shamed.

This will give the likes of Specky and Borolad an opportunity to play Lord Haw Haw swapsies.

proudas Posted on 15/06/2010 16:14
The British Army shamed.

are we going to have an inquiry into all the innocent IRA victims

Lefty Posted on 15/06/2010 16:15
The British Army shamed.

Whether you agree with their findings or not, this is a pretty frank report. No sweeping under the carpet or shying away from uncomfortable truths.

Let us hope this has a positive effect on the Iraq enquiry.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 15/06/2010 16:16
The British Army shamed.

One of the darkest days in our recent history. The victims families will need to be greatly compensated, and rightly so.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:16
The British Army shamed.

What are you talking about capio, you lagered up obscurantist?

proudas Posted on 15/06/2010 16:17
The British Army shamed.

just put it down to friendly fire

Pauluka Posted on 15/06/2010 16:22
The British Army shamed.

What a waste of money. £195m FFS!!

But I suppose it need resolving seen as though it happened nearly 40 years

jumpers4goalposts Posted on 15/06/2010 16:23
The British Army shamed.

this really grits mt sh*t!!!!! all those bombings over the years have no justification of the innocent people being killed and what for? nothing was ever achieved by this it was single minded terrorism of the highest order! now all of a sudden (keeping in mind there is clear video footage of a "peaceful protesters" throwing petrol bombs, bricks etc at squaddies) these soldiers are being accounted for murder for doing their job????? wtf?? FU(K EM ALL THE TERRORIST IRISH FECKERS!!! AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES!!! [:(!]

Midosparmo Posted on 15/06/2010 16:24
The British Army shamed.

Should have bung the victims families a million quid with a sorry letter and saved 180 million on XXXXXXing costs!

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:25
The British Army shamed.

'this really grits mt sh*t!!!!! '

I have no idea what that means but it sounds like you have to be really, really angry for it to happen.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:27
The British Army shamed.

Things happen like this in all terrorist engagements. Its not good but its a consequence of taking up arms.
See the Paris massacre of the early 60s of an Algerian demonstration to see real atrocities againsy protesters. Up to 200 dead during the march and in the subequent interrogations. Bodies were found floating in the river for days.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:29
The British Army shamed.

It wasn't a terrorist engagement. And saying we shot fewer than the French in similar circumstances doesn't really exonerate those responsible.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:33
The British Army shamed.

They were being used as a tool by the paramilitaries to draw soldiers into a trap.
Yes the soldiers probably did give a disproportionate response but see how you would react if you believed your life was in danger.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:33
The British Army shamed.

"Things happen like this in all terrorist engagements" (?!).


Really. You mean a standing army of a sovereign state are ordered to open fire on unarmed civilians on a legal demonstration, calling for human rights in their own country?


That makes it alright then. The army can open fire on whom it wants. You must be ill.

boronutter Posted on 15/06/2010 16:34
The British Army shamed.

the army were sent in to do their jobs,and done it, [^]end of.as smeone pointed out above where are the big public enquiries fo0r all the british ira victims?

Bri_Marwood Posted on 15/06/2010 16:38
The British Army shamed.

If their job was to go in and kill innocent members of the public then yes, job done. Otherwise they were totally out of control, acting with incredible cowardice and deserve retribution.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:38
The British Army shamed.

Very simplistic Roofie.
The whole Human rights movement was being hijacked and manipulated by the Provisional IRA and MGuiness in particular. He was odious then and hes odious now.

Kilburn Posted on 15/06/2010 16:39
The British Army shamed.

The army did a bad thing a long time ago. It's finally been admitted and apologised for. No more needs to be said or done, it's now ancient history.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 16:39
The British Army shamed.

' if you believed your life was in danger.'

From people with their hands raised yelling 'don't shoot'?

levendale Posted on 15/06/2010 16:40
The British Army shamed.

Exactly , the police are trained to deal with this sort of thing the army are trained to fight people .

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 16:42
The British Army shamed.

"the army were sent in to do their jobs,and done it, end of."

Which is why 12 years and 195 million quid later, Davo Cammo is having to say "sorry". Good username by the way.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:46
The British Army shamed.

Nothing simplistic about opening fire on innocent civilians and murdering them. There is no justification in any democracy for that.

boronutter Posted on 15/06/2010 16:47
The British Army shamed.

i think so too,pleased u like it[^]

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 15/06/2010 16:47
The British Army shamed.

For a bunch of peaceful protesters they soon managed to find guns to return fire.


r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:50
The British Army shamed.

Some are beginning to sound like they are digging themselves into a corner. Careful, you are sounding like the rogue state Israel.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 16:57
The British Army shamed.

Only a rogue state in your mind Roofie.

Fletch Posted on 15/06/2010 16:59
The British Army shamed.

"frontline assasins"
"return thier medal of honour"

what a load of bollixs...

Never forget or forgive -
Warren Point where the Sh*thouse IRA blew lads up and then detonated a second bomb on the rescuers...

Cogeur_le_Conq Posted on 15/06/2010 16:59
The British Army shamed.

Have the British Army been found guilty of any misdoings on the 1920 Bloody Sunday when they open fired on the crowd of a Gaelic football game at Croke Park?

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:00
The British Army shamed.

Lets accept that "Shoot to Kill" was the official policy of the British Government, who have lied to the victims familiies of innocent British Civilians, murdered in cold blood. That, in my mind (and millions of civilised Britains) is not acceptible. The commanders and politicians who gave the order should be tried and punished.

Ban_Vuvuzelas Posted on 15/06/2010 17:01
The British Army shamed.

All the usual suspects who are condemning the army over that unfortunate event, but why am i not surprised.

Because your the same lot who defend hamas for sending rockets into Israel.[V]

Just why do the 'Left' always side with terrorists/terrorist sympathizers?

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:02
The British Army shamed.

Does that go for McGuiness and Adams Roofie?

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:07
The British Army shamed.

Murdering innocent civilians by the army of a "democratic" country is unacceptable. Shoot to kill was deliberate and the governments lies were known for what they were from that day on. Dont justify murder. The IRA had nothing to do with the British Army opening fire on innocent civilians. You cant hide behind smears and lies, otherwise you are an apologist for murder.

Bri_Marwood Posted on 15/06/2010 17:10
The British Army shamed.

Some people are struggling to see the difference between the peaceful demonstrators on the march and terrorists. Not everyone present was a member of the IRA.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:11
The British Army shamed.

Its good rhetoric Roofie but it doesnt answer my question.
Or are you saying that the fact that that McGuiness and adams were complicit in the murder of soldiers, policeman and members of the public is simply a smear campaign

GillZean Posted on 15/06/2010 17:13
The British Army shamed.

Roofie,

"Murdering innocent civilians by the army of a "democratic" country is unacceptable",- do you mean the Irish Republican Army?

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:14
The British Army shamed.

'over that unfortunate event'

You make it sound like a dropped pie or stubbed toe.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:15
The British Army shamed.

Blair shouldn't have bothered with the Saville Report. He could have just asked OldSmoggie.
He knows the real truth.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:18
The British Army shamed.

The truth? Do you believe the Saville report will be the truth?
Its a politicaly motivated exercise so the truth will as always be a casualty of that exercise.
Or do you only believe that government enquiries arent whitwashes when they come out on the side of your opinion.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:19
The British Army shamed.

If you are saying that The British Army have the right to murder innocent civilians on the streets, who are legally protesting, you are as guilty as those whom you accuse.

The IRA, like the UVF, UFF etc are not standing armies and you know it. Does the actions of a few individuals justify the murder of innocent civilians? NO. In your example, the Army should have gone into parts of Bradford, Leicester and other parts of the country agter the August bus bombings in 2007. Utter nonesense and it shows you total misunderstanding and contempt for our "democracy".

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:19
The British Army shamed.

Fair to say it's a more considered effort than Widgery.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:20
The British Army shamed.

"The truth? Do you believe the Saville report will be the truth?
Its a politicaly motivated exercise so the truth will as always be a casualty of that exercise."
Whose motives? Blair? Cameron?

The_same_as_before Posted on 15/06/2010 17:21
The British Army shamed.

The Irish Catholics understood ethnic cleansing well before the Serbs and the Tutu's thought of it. And I am one. Go and find a Prod (sic) down the Falls.



The Devis flats had gunmen on them, they must have been clay pidgeon shooting.


oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:22
The British Army shamed.

Roofie more rhetoric and preachings but you still havent answered the question I asked.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:23
The British Army shamed.

Nor you mine, OS.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:24
The British Army shamed.

There are none so blind as those who dont want to se. You, unfortunately are amongst them. You cant justify murder. You are as guilty as they were.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:26
The British Army shamed.

'The Irish Catholics understood ethnic cleansing well before the Serbs and the Tutu's thought of it. And I am one. Go and find a Prod (sic) down the Falls.'


How bizarre. You do realise why Wilson sent the army into Ulster in the first place?


levendale Posted on 15/06/2010 17:26
The British Army shamed.

Just another excuse for the pc brigade to bash the english .

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:27
The British Army shamed.

So you cant bring yourself to answer the question then as it will show what your true colours are.
Tell me what the difference is between the soldiers and thier officers and the IRA and their Chief of staff.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:27
The British Army shamed.

t_s_a_b, are you a prod, a catholic, a Serb or a Tutu...it's hard to discern from your post.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:28
The British Army shamed.

Helloooooo, oldsmoggie...whose political motives? Blair's? Cameron's?

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:29
The British Army shamed.

Those of us who are old enough to have read and heard the excuses for the deliberate murder of those innocent civilians, remember how BBC Television and Radio, the Press and other media used the same excuses at the time as the apologists are today. The IRA had nothing to do with a standing Army, of a "democratic" western country, ordering its troups to murder unarmed civilians on a British street. You cant hide by detracting from the admission of guilt published today in black and white, and acknowledged by democratically elected politicians, including the prime minister.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:30
The British Army shamed.

'Tell me what the difference is between the soldiers and thier officers and the IRA and their Chief of staff. '

The law. Confers responsibility as well as power.


oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:31
The British Army shamed.

Borolad it was a Blair sop to Sinn Fein to get the Good Friday agreement to stick.
It was always going to bring about a verdict such as this , partly because there were shootings of innocent people and partly because politics make such acts of appeasment neccassary. Worth it if it brings peace.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:34
The British Army shamed.

Agreed Specky. The LAW is what seperates the Army from organised murderers and criminals. If we are saying that a legal army has the right to indiscriminetly murder innocent men women and children, the perpetrators should be brought before a court of law and tried for murder.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:34
The British Army shamed.

So the fact that you dont have a legitimate democratic position makes it OK to murder people does it Specy.
I'm only wanting to hear equal condemnation for all decisions to murder people.

GillZean Posted on 15/06/2010 17:34
The British Army shamed.

Did the IRA murder innocent civilians, roofie?

zaphod Posted on 15/06/2010 17:35
The British Army shamed.

The report just confirms & documents what most sensible people have known for decades. The soldiers over-reacted to a broadly peaceful protest. The behaviour of the IRA, UVF & other terrorists was appalling but it does not justify the killing of unarmed civilians by the British Government. Only a frank admission of that will allow everyone to move on.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:35
The British Army shamed.

oldsmoggie, I agree that it was a necessary step in the peace process, but as it was accepted without equivocation by Cameron...and as they could have just said sorry, and saved 195 million quid, I suspect that actually spending 12 years investigating the events, to get at the TRUTH was pretty fundamental.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:35
The British Army shamed.

I like the way this little oaf keeps chucking clemmies in from time to time.

Looks like the oaf in question has been disappeared.

r00fie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:37
The British Army shamed.

Zaphod, Borolad and others. The case for the families of the dead and wounded relatives has been unanimously proven. Now the commanders wgo authorised those murders must be tried before a court of law,.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 15/06/2010 17:39
The British Army shamed.

100% agree with that Zaphod, for me the findings are very damning but this is just part of the moving on from the troubles where too many innocent people on all sides had their lives taken away from them.


ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 17:40
The British Army shamed.

Roofie, the march was illegal. As for what you say about "shoot to kill", the paras might well have operated a shoot to kill policy that day, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of republicans when the IRA (and terrorists on both sides) also operated a shoot to kill policy.

As for people on here congratulating the paras that day on "doing a job", FFS. Maybe as suggested, the Saville enquiry was biased. I don't know. The lawyer representing the soldiers thinks so, but I suppose he would say that. I don't know enough about the report. Were the witnesses called free from bias? I would imagine those from the army side would be biased towards their fellow squaddies, whereas eye-witnesses from the march and from the Bogside might be biased towards their side too.

The fact is that innocent people were killed that day. Those who did it, for whatever reason should along with the terrorists, share the burden for what went on for the next 25 years. Whilst I would never try to justify the horrors perpetrated by terrorists, Bloody Sunday was the catalyst that caused the IRA to escalate their campaign, resulting in the deaths of many innocents on both sides, including ordinary squaddies and RUC men.

I don't know if I'd be comfortable with prosecutions though. Although we can't have inquiries into those killed by the terrorists, what about the justice for their victims? Known murderers were realeased as part of the 1998 agreement. That is wrong. Also ,it's somewhat hypocritical to see the likes of Adams and McGuinness there. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

I just hope that if the DPP decide it's not worthwhile pursuing a criminal prosecution, that the families can accept that. Maybe then, as Leitrim suggests, we can all move on.

zaphod Posted on 15/06/2010 17:42
The British Army shamed.

proudas, that was a completely different (& later) event. It was disgraceful, but one evil deed doesn't justify another.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 17:45
The British Army shamed.

I struggle to see how any enquiry that must of course be based on statements and evidence from people with entrenched and partial views can ever get to the whole truth.
Of course the killing of people wasnt right but you cant just pull one incident out and ignore all the ones you dont want to admit were equally abhorrent.
I'm still waiting for a written statement from yourself that Adams and McGuiness should also go on trial for murder both actual and by encouragement to.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 17:47
The British Army shamed.

1 para were the most unprofessional unit I ever came across whilst in the army, there was no doubt that in the end the truth will out.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 17:49
The British Army shamed.

Well I can't comment on that Sitrep, but for their actions in Normandy, at Arnhem and in the Falklands, they are well-respected.

proudas Posted on 15/06/2010 17:49
The British Army shamed.

1 Para are now special forces support unit so probs very proffesional now

Muttley Posted on 15/06/2010 17:49
The British Army shamed.

"Roofie, the march was illegal. As for what you say about "shoot to kill", the paras might well have operated a shoot to kill policy that day, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of republicans when the IRA (and terrorists on both sides) also operated a shoot to kill policy."

The point is, we're supposed to be the good guys wearing the white hats, you know the upholders of law and order the rebel alliance fighting the evil empire? We're supposed to be better than that. We aspire to fairness and the rule of law and order and therefore we must live by those same laws or we have become no better than those we protect society from.

Where then?

The apology is the right thing to do, hopefully we can now move on?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 15/06/2010 17:53
The British Army shamed.

at 30 secs order not to return fire

the ira were there and were firing

at 2:20 the initial enquiry states " at worst firing bordered on the reckless" well thats using a leathal weapon against a crowd.

now watch that video clip and you might have saved £200M pounds

the thirteen victims very probably were innocent
the army allways shoot to kill
the paras very probably were out of control
the ira very probably were firing from behind the crowd

there should be an apology from both the british army and the ira to the families of the victims


Link: video

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 17:57
The British Army shamed.

Muttley, I'm not condoning the killing of people simply because they're on a banned march. I was just putting Roofie straight after the following comment: "innocent civilians on the streets, who are legally protesting". Innocent people, yes. Legally protesting, no.

I agree that as security forces, they are accountable to the people and any government inquiry. Terrorists of course, are not. If Sinn Fein/IRA want to have inquries though, they can as far as I'm concerned, but they won't. Maybe the Northern Irish administration should have had a truth and reconcilliation inquiry as they had in South Africa in the 1990s.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 17:58
The British Army shamed.

The IRA have already apologised.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/06/2010 17:59
The British Army shamed.

Amazing how much the lies of a few politicians and army officers cost, isn't it?

Like the expenses swindlers, they should be made to pay it back.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 18:04
The British Army shamed.

Have they? When? What about the justice for their victims? Out of all the things in the 1998 agreement, the release of murderers from both sides, I find totally repugnant and upalatable.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/06/2010 18:08
The British Army shamed.

You had to be jailed to be released. Who went to jail for the atrocities whilst representing Her Majesty?

Hopefully the Irish question will be left to the ballot box from now on.


ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 18:12
The British Army shamed.

Fair enough Corky, but they should never have been released. Atrocities committed in the name of the crown are nowhere near the magnitude of those committed by the terrorists.

Bernie_was_right Posted on 15/06/2010 18:18
The British Army shamed.

This inquiry was always going to come to this conclusion. It`s only believed by the same kind of people who genuinely think the Birmingham 6 & Guildford 4 were innocent.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 18:20
The British Army shamed.

You were quick there Bernie. Manage to catch Littlejohn on the phone?

Muttley Posted on 15/06/2010 18:22
The British Army shamed.

"It`s only believed by the same kind of people who genuinely think the Birmingham 6 & Guildford 4 were innocent."

Stick to plagiarism.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 18:26
The British Army shamed.

This was a battalion out of control, the main culprit for this was the officer commanding N Ireland he used this unit outside of the normal rules of engagement, they moved into mainly republican areas softening up with rubber bullets hose pipes and no accountability for how many rounds they fired off, was it any wonder that they lost the plot when they were that used to firing indiscriminately when not under threat.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 15/06/2010 18:47
The British Army shamed.


i could not find this on the internet
"The IRA have already apologised." have the leaders of the derry ira specifically apologised for hiding behind a riotous crowd ,that contained women and children, and shooting to kill at the british army and accepted being partly to blame for what happened.

cameron has appologised for the part played by specifically one platoon ( 30 men ) of the para regiment.
but people are trying to blame the whole of the british establishment for the terrible actions of some of those 30 men and some officers covering up what happened is wrong
the officers and soldiers have been found and are now being held accountable ( ish )


some of the 30 men and the officers were wrong
and equally so were the ira gunmen

standards Posted on 15/06/2010 18:47
The British Army shamed.

which mob were you Sitrep?

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 18:51
The British Army shamed.

I posted the link at 16.13.

It's an apology. If you think it's adequate or not it's up to you. It's more than the Bloody Sunday victims and relatives have had until today.

levendale Posted on 15/06/2010 18:56
The British Army shamed.

Just heard on radio the report states " martin mcguiness probably had a machine gun "
That sounds really innocent like .

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 18:58
The British Army shamed.

The Duke of Wellington's Regt

Muttley Posted on 15/06/2010 19:00
The British Army shamed.

Martin McGuiness wasn't one of those shot (sadly)

Oops sorry my pinko liberal bedwetting agenda slipped for a moment there!

boroboy1970 Posted on 15/06/2010 19:01
The British Army shamed.

I think I read somewhere that the paras were mobilized to scare protestors/civilians, weeks beforehand, obviously putting such a highly string aggressive unit in such a scenario was wrong in hindsight , but in the day it was pretty tasty over there and someone felt their presence was needed.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 19:03
The British Army shamed.

Sitrep, were you based at Wellesley Park?

standards Posted on 15/06/2010 19:07
The British Army shamed.

where and when did you work with 1 Para?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 15/06/2010 19:12
The British Army shamed.

the link at 16:13 is about an entirely different occasion

"Sunday 21 July marks the 30th anniversary of an IRA operation in Belfast in 1972 "

martin mcguiness
says the ira were there
they did deploy snipers but did not fire
which would be pretty unbelievable especially if you watch the RTE ( not BBC )clip

the enquiry refutes that statement from mcguiness and goes on to say the ira did fire at some troops from areas behind the crowd that DID INCLUDE WOMEN AND CHILDREN

some of the 30 men did lose control, not the whole of the army. the fact that every one of those killed was male aged between 16 and 60 shows that it was deliberate shooting of very possibly entirely the wrong people ( ie innocent of carrying guns or bombs )


LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 19:37
The British Army shamed.

Innocent people shot dead and yet for some on here it should have been more. "Bogtrotters and Irish barstewards"
The usual people with an anti Irish agenda didn`t disappoint with their hatred and lack of balance.(and first hand accounts!!!!)
The lack of knowledge by some on here is, frankly, staggering.
This enquiry did cost money true. Perhaps if the first enquiry (yes, there was one) wasn`t such a whitewash there would have been no need for this.
The enquiry was about bloody sunday not the troubles. It was asking why people were shot and killed on that day.
Shame on some of you.
Your hatred says more about ye than this enquiry.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 19:47
The British Army shamed.

Standards: do I sense doubt? Palace Barracks, 6 months later, Ballymurphy

borolad259: no not Wellesley, Iím not that old

TheSmogMonster Posted on 15/06/2010 19:59
The British Army shamed.

Could you not be bothered to read the rest of the apology sixtyniner69?

It's about the civilian deaths in the whole conflict.

"It is, therefore, appropriate on the anniversary of this tragic event, that we address all of the deaths and injuries of non-combatants caused by us. We offer our sincere apologies and condolences to their families. There have been fatalities amongst combatants on all sides. We also acknowledge the grief and pain of their relatives."

sixtyniner69 Posted on 15/06/2010 20:25
The British Army shamed.

i specifically refer to the fact that the ira are trying to say that they in no way were to blame for what happened on bloody sunday.

the fact remains they were there
with snipers rifles and ammunition

and if what we here is true they would have been blamed by their own side if they did not fire at the army

the 30 soldiers ,some of whom lost control, were not under fire from the ira snipers but other members of the british army were under fire from snipers hidden behind women and children. the ira are trying to deny what has been now established as they realise that makes them partly to blame!

NedKat Posted on 15/06/2010 20:35
The British Army shamed.

In the 38-year Operation Banner, which ended in 2007, 763 servicemen and women were killed as a direct result of terrorism. It is estimated that the true total, including car crashes, suicides and friendly fire, stands at more than 1,300. More than 6,000 were wounded, some of them permanently disabled.

At the height of the Troubles in 1972 there were 27,000 British troops based in Ulster compared to 8,000 in Afghanistan and 4,000 in Iraq today. It was also the worst year for casualties with 102 soldiers killed.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 20:36
The British Army shamed.

"5.4 We have concluded that the explanation for such firing by Support Company soldiers after they had gone into the Bogside was in most cases probably the mistaken belief among them that republican paramilitaries were responding in force to their arrival in the Bogside. This belief was initiated by the first shots fired by Lieutenant N and reinforced by the further shots that followed soon after. In this belief soldiers reacted by losing their self-control and firing themselves, forgetting or ignoring their instructions and training and failing to satisfy themselves that they had identified targets posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. In the case of those soldiers who fired in either the knowledge or belief that no-one in the areas into which they fired was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, or not caring whether or not anyone there was posing such a threat, it is at least possible that they did so in the indefensible belief that all the civilians they fired at were probably either members of the Provisional or Official IRA or were supporters of one or other of these paramilitary organisations; and so deserved to be shot notwithstanding that they were not armed or posing any threat of causing death or serious injury. Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company."
Damning verdict.
An unpalatable truth.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 20:42
The British Army shamed.

Still conjecture and probability that would probably not stand up to the requirements of a court of law regardinglevel of doubt.
What really gets me is the way you totally accept this report as gospel but doubt every other report commisioned by the "Brits"
Is it because it fits with what you want.

levendale Posted on 15/06/2010 20:45
The British Army shamed.

Hearing more of the reports reasoning , every ira witness was telling the truth , every para was lying , yep sounds good to go .

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 20:47
The British Army shamed.

Political expediency.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 20:51
The British Army shamed.

The IRA just sat back and waited for their biggest recruitment day in history, bloody Sunday put back any chance of peace for the foreseeable future. Arguably it was the cause of far more deaths of servicemen and civilians.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 20:53
The British Army shamed.

Did you fail your entry test for the Paras Siterap

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 21:00
The British Army shamed.

Didnít get past the shooting in the back, aptitude test

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 21:10
The British Army shamed.

[:O] Blimey.

Incidentally Sitrep, I was looking around the regimental museum the other week. Fascinating stuff.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 21:13
The British Army shamed.

Havenít been since the refurbishment, have to get down there sometime.

borolad259 Posted on 15/06/2010 21:19
The British Army shamed.

Give us a shout when you are going, you can bop me on the conk for the disgruntled of the board.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 21:31
The British Army shamed.

oldsmoggie...
The truth not acceptable to you ???

You sad and bitter "man"

standards Posted on 15/06/2010 21:34
The British Army shamed.

keep talking [^]

Ban_Vuvuzelas Posted on 15/06/2010 21:34
The British Army shamed.

'You sad and bitter "man"'


Oh the irony.[:D]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 21:36
The British Army shamed.

Specky, just seen your link at 16:13 re the IRA's apology. Thanks for posting that.

oldsmoggie Posted on 15/06/2010 21:38
The British Army shamed.

Leitrim you really need to change the record and get some help in moving on. Your bitterness to us Brits(apart from the lefty apologists) is doing you no good.
Go and feed the horses now.

speckyget Posted on 15/06/2010 21:43
The British Army shamed.

'Lefty apologists'? If there was ever a topic that doesn't fit into the old fashioned political spectrum stuff this was it.

PTCFT - no probs, probably a pale consolation if you'd lost a loved one but these things need saying.

Maybe in the spirit of reconciliation the government would like to make a statement about the Ballymurphy shootings now?

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 15/06/2010 21:45
The British Army shamed.

We all know the PIRA comitted many terrible acts of murderous violence that all of us would condemn. But today is not about them, today is about a series of events that brings shame on the good name of the British Army who are supposed to represent and uphold the rule of law.



"Lord Saville says that some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to the assistance of others who were dying.

The report refers to one person who was shot while crawling away from the soldiers. Another was shot in all probability when he was lying mortally wounded on the ground.

The report refers to the father who was hit and injured by army gunfire after going to attend to his son."



Shameful.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 21:48
The British Army shamed.

oldsmoggie...Your bitterness to the irish is for all to see on this thread.
How many messages on this thread have you posted ???????? 20/30 Says it all.
Like I said on my first or second post time to move on. Unfortunately the likes of you can`t.
You really have a problem.
Sad but midly amusing to myself.
Feed horses ???? Not this time of year. There you are, you learnt something.

chorleyphil Posted on 15/06/2010 21:56
The British Army shamed.

This 'debate' is so typical of this boards demise.

Where is the love people?
Nasty viscious comments aimed at fellow Boro fans ffs!

Grow up and let it go.

Sitrep Posted on 15/06/2010 22:01
The British Army shamed.

"government would like to make a statement about the Ballymurphy shootings now?"


no chance, what happened in Ballymurphy was much worse.

HolgateCorner Posted on 15/06/2010 22:02
The British Army shamed.

mistakes do happen in times of conflict, tension and civil war.

The army wouldn't have been present if Northern Ireland at the time had been a land of smiling youngsters, green meadows and the sound of birdsong.

The people of Londonderry deep down will have their own guilt that the baying mob on the street led to the circumstances which resulted in the British Army opening fire on British civilians.

The reality is that neither party can escape some blame for this appalling piece of history.

chorleyphil Posted on 15/06/2010 22:04
The British Army shamed.

HC Good post with no bias [^]

joshie Posted on 15/06/2010 22:14
The British Army shamed.

I bet the scousers will be fuming.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 15/06/2010 22:14
The British Army shamed.

Thing is LB, some of the bereaved understandably might not want to move on. Some have said they want prosecutions. If the DPP decide not to pursue it, i.e. because convictions might not be possible, I hope that the families can accept that.

Amongst all the emotion, I thought some showed quite a bit of dignity, such as Jackie Duddy asking for a one minute silence for all the victims of the troubles, as well as when interviewed Tony Doherty and Jean Hegarty.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 15/06/2010 23:08
The British Army shamed.

Agreed, yet again PTCFT.
I`ve just heard your PM`s speech in the house of commons. I`m fecking staggered in his honesty.
A tory PM using those words.
I`m honestly speechless.

The_same_as_before Posted on 15/06/2010 23:22
The British Army shamed.

Boro(the banner) Catholic English with way back Irish roots, pragmatic, and Mcguiness was not carrying a gun for target practice.

GillZean Posted on 15/06/2010 23:32
The British Army shamed.

Sinn Fein IRA quote " While it was not our intention to injure or kill non-combatants", like XXXXXX it wasn't.[:(!]

doireboro Posted on 16/06/2010 00:16
The British Army shamed.

For most people on this thread calling the innocents on that day terrorists and the like and talking about the army bein fired upon by them, you all really don't have a f'n clue.

Learn what happened and read the report. Murder is what it was. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

I'm not condoning any bombings by the IRA or anything either as that was also murder before anyone starts wi any pro terrorist, IRA balls either.

Just saying, get the facts right before posting ignorance.

Vindication for the familys of the dead, proud day for the good people of Derry!


r00fie Posted on 16/06/2010 00:18
The British Army shamed.

the british army, under the rule of law: 1st battalion the parachute regiment, opened fire on innocent civilians and killed them on a british street.

redwurzel Posted on 16/06/2010 00:22
The British Army shamed.

The provisional IRA didn't exist until the British Army arrived in NI.

Some of you need history lessons on why 27k troops were sent to NI in the first place. I don't think 99% of you know why.

r00fie Posted on 16/06/2010 00:24
The British Army shamed.

redwurzel[^]spot on.

GillZean Posted on 16/06/2010 08:07
The British Army shamed.

I think he's including you in that, roofie.[rle]

The_same_as_before Posted on 16/06/2010 08:40
The British Army shamed.

Red, you put yourself on a very high pedestal.

ridsdale Posted on 16/06/2010 08:45
The British Army shamed.

I expect Shane MacGowen and the Dubliners will get a hit CD out of it.

expat_smoggie Posted on 16/06/2010 08:47
The British Army shamed.

the fact is that day, innocent people died...the army should not have opened fire..it's that simple. Later on the IRA committed atrocities, but they were then thought of as a terrorist organisation. However, back then -- on that day-- it was more of the fact that they were just a bunch of thugs. Ok, the IRA killed more people later on , but it still can't be attached to bloody Sunday.

The_263 Posted on 16/06/2010 08:59
The British Army shamed.

With the benefit of hindsight .....! There's no denying the saga has been politicised and an integral part of any peace process.

No one who was there will no the real truth on that one of many awful days. The paras are trained to kill so any culpability for that day (on the HMG side) should be directed at the head of state for using the paras to police the streets.

Nothing will happen to the retired soldiers.

It's all bollox!!

undercover_copper Posted on 16/06/2010 09:00
The British Army shamed.

Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company."

REMF's?

rivals_oldschool Posted on 16/06/2010 09:01
The British Army shamed.

So the victims are happy enough to walk along hand in hand with the IRA thugs who hid behind them?

I switched off when I saw Sinn Fein and Martin Mcguinness mugs all over the news.

As much as any wrong was done that day, I still can't stomach the Irish and they're sectarianism.

The_263 Posted on 16/06/2010 09:04
The British Army shamed.

One difference between the Irish and British is that the Irish simply never forget and still harp on about a battle of some bog-trotting hill in 1750 when the English invaders killed and slayed 10 innocent victims. Move on FFS!! In saying that, their knowledge of histrotical events is encycopedic.

MarlonD Posted on 16/06/2010 09:22
The British Army shamed.

Terrible day for all involved.

What was worse though was that it inspired a sh1t song, sang by an utter knobhead.

Thats the real travesty.

speckyget Posted on 16/06/2010 09:24
The British Army shamed.

The Richard Cheese version is mint.

newyddion Posted on 16/06/2010 10:56
The British Army shamed.

Armies Kill people.

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 16/06/2010 11:33
The British Army shamed.

It was interesting to hear General Sir Mike Jacksons dignified apology for Bloody Sunday.


Link: link.

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 16/06/2010 11:36
The British Army shamed.

His apology is especially brave and honorable when you consider that he was witness to the PIRA's 'revenge' attack on the Paras at Warrenpoint in 1979.




Link: link

jumpers4goalposts Posted on 16/06/2010 13:24
The British Army shamed.

the youtube link to the bloody sunday if ya look closely theres a sign with a nazi swastika [?] 1 minute and approx 46 seconds in