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HolgateCorner Posted on 07/06/2010 22:51
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

What a miserable job he has been handed.

And he's already lost his sparkle in my view, I think he knows he will not win or even fight the next election, if he couldn't win in May then he's certainly not going to win after 5 years of unpopular cuts.

He has to keep Clegg happy and I notice our glorious Liberal leader is nowhere to be seen when bad news is being dished out.

He's almost been set up as the nation's patsy and I can see the Tories replacing him before the next election to put somebody 'untainted' in against Labour in 2015.

Only_Me Posted on 08/06/2010 00:20
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

I tend to agree largely H.C. He's not that popular with some, even in his own party, let alone the electorate. He does seem like a nice enough guy but he just has no charisma really.
I honestly don't think he wanted to win the election and I said that at the time. I can't say I blame him under the circs but his biggest mistake for me, was the fiasco over the vote on the Lisbon treaty. There was absolutely nothing to stop him holding a vote, even though the treaty had been ratified ( 'Tis written that no government should be tied by the actions of it's predecessor ) and there was most certainly nothing whatsoever stopping him from holding an 'in or out' vote. He let the country down very badly over that one and it won't be forgotten. Nor will his expense claims for cutting down wisteria, or his 2nd home claims, when he could have paid for things out of his own pocket.
I too would be very surprised if he is still leader of the party at the next election.
Saying that, I'm not sure who would replace him, other than Boris, the tory party still seems to be a charisma free zone.[|)]

degsyspesh Posted on 08/06/2010 00:39
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

It is undoubtedly a poisoned chalice and I can't see any circumstances arising which will see him being viewed as a success in years to come. The coalition may work reasonably well for a year or two, but once the LD's get bored of their current excitement at having some power they will start rocking the boat.

Cracks will also start appearing in the tory party as the right wingers won't be willing to contain their frustration at the party effectively being neutered by the LD's.

The main thing though is that in 2 weeks they are going to present an emergency budget which I guess is going to cause a fair amount of outrage - particularly within the public sector and will see the start of several difficult years for the country.

That said, my guess is that this coalition will actually damage the LD's more than anyone else. If they don't get their wish for proportional representation implemented in the current parliament then they are likely to get screwed over at the next general election.

GtBB Posted on 08/06/2010 00:39
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

He can keep the seat warm for Diane Abbot. It's a facile arms race with the Yanks. We go, look, black AND a woman. They'll come back at us with a geniune red indian for president.

Only_Me Posted on 08/06/2010 00:49
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

" He can keep the seat warm for Diane Abbot. "

Oh I sincerely hope not [xx(][cr]

Raoul_Duke Posted on 08/06/2010 00:50
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

His big problem will be trying to win any votes at all from disgruntled public sector workers XXXXXXed off at the cuts.

I can't understand why Cameron thinks the private sector will grow simply because he is taking a hatchet to the public sector. It almost seems like an ideological crusade, and this will make him even more unpopular.

degsyspesh Posted on 08/06/2010 00:59
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

It's a given that the public sector is going to get hammered -but my hope is that in the budget they will announce measures which will seek boost the private sector.

The only way that the country is going to get out of the massive amount of shoite that we are currently in is by growing the economy and earning our way out.

If their plan is limited to slashing the public sector then we might as well all feck off and live somewhere else

moxxey Posted on 08/06/2010 07:42
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"by growing the economy and earning our way out"

You mean, spending our way out. That's all Brits do on a weekend these days. Go to the shops and spend.

br14 Posted on 08/06/2010 08:03
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"There was absolutely nothing to stop him holding a vote"

Holding a referendum after the agreement had been ratified would be a bit odd legally. Not to mention probably meaning the immediate exclusion of the UK from the EU, since the rest had ratified.

As for being a patsy. I suppose that depends on how good a job he does. After all, Thatcher got re-elected a couple of times and look what she did.

For all the anguish over her, the country was financially stable when she was finally removed.

Monetarism tastes awful, but it works.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 08/06/2010 08:42
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

he needs to keep the nation informed as to how badly NULAB did in destroying the nations finances

and how we need to keep the NULAB out of power for the forseeable future, as the party not of the working class but of the non-working class NULAB have been a disaster for the tax paying society.


gazzastrip2 Posted on 08/06/2010 08:56
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Its a pity he has been handed a poisoned chalice.

Miss-Spend, tax and borrow policies of Labour (new and old) regularly screw up this country and the Tories always seem to be the ones that have to sort out the mess.

In 20-30 years there will probably be idiots on this board blaming Cameron for all that is wrong in their life!

Rod1000 Posted on 08/06/2010 09:02
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

^^^ unlike the chronic lack of investment by the tories prior to labour; labour had to pick up the mess as the tories shafted the NHS, schools, the railway, mines, ship yards etc etc.

much like the poisoned chalice handed to blair and subsequently brown.


TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 09:10
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

The 1st split will come either from the Lib left or the Tory right. I think Vince Cable is already starting to bork at the policies of Osborne and Camerons working his socks off to keep the Tory right on a leash. If the Lib left go 1st it could play into Camerons hands and strenghen his position. If the Tory right go it will bring down the government. Fingers crossed!

speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 09:15
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

My money's on the Tory right. Power is a seductive drug; cures all known principles.

danes_close Posted on 08/06/2010 09:30
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Personally I think Clegg has set himself up as the patsy. If the government does well, the Tories will benefit. If it does badly then Labour will benefit.

Kilburn Posted on 08/06/2010 10:13
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Like all new governments, Cameron & Co are taking the chance to rewrite recent history to agree with what they were arguing when they were in opposition.

The assertion that the last government borrowed unusually excessively to increase public spending is now hardly being questioned, so forcefully have the new government been pushing this version of events.

In fact, if you look at the figures up until the point when the banking crisis broke, the increase in government borrowing was bang in line with the average of the last 25 years or so. A period which was equally split between tory and labour rule.

The massive increase between then and now is a direct result of the banking crisis, not of excessive public spending. Kudos to the tory spin-machine for making it look otherwise though. I'm sure Alistair Campbell is looking on with an approving eye.

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 10:25
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Isn't it strange that the Tories are presenting that the financial situation is worse than they thought when in actual fact the deficit is 11 billion less than was predicted.

The Tories are so predictable. Coming out with all this crap about how its much worse than they thought. Wait until they start shoe horning tax breaks for the rich whilst slashing public spending, then the sh!t will hit the fan and the idiots who voted for them will reap what they sowed (unfortunatly along with the rest of us who didn't).

Rod1000 Posted on 08/06/2010 10:44
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

yes - we never saw that coming.

its worse than what we thought so there's going to be more cuts and higher taxes [rle]


TheSmogMonster Posted on 08/06/2010 10:59
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Is it just me who finds it slightly shocking that people in this thread don't understand that Labour did indeed over borrow?

Just wait till thy include the PFI figures in!

I'm not a fan of the Tories, but to say they didn't inherit this situation smacks of some kind of selective memory syndrome - Labour too were discussing combating the deficit, just later and I believe similar cuts would have happened eventually had a Labour government won the last election.

Reducing everything you don't agree with down to propaganda isn't doing you any favours and it certainly doesn't make your argument more compelling.

As HolgateCorner says its a 'miserable job he has been handed'. I think Cameron is hoping on two things, some kind of blitz mentality to bring us together it; which after the last 30 years is unlikely given our 'me me me' culture is so deeply engrained now and I think his second hope is that people remember why we ended up in so much debt in the first place.

If he manages to pull it off Labour will be out of power a long time, my feeling is however that he won't manage it.

Kilburn Posted on 08/06/2010 11:05
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"Is it just me who finds it slightly shocking that people in this thread don't understand that Labour did indeed over borrow?"

I can't see any posts that say that they didn't over-borrow. The level of the deficit is there in black and white.

However, the over-borrowing is being misrepresented as profligate public spending, when in fact it is the result of having to deal with the banking crisis. Until the crisis hit, the figures show that government borrowing was tracking the historical average.

speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 11:09
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Don't think Tory ideology will be forgotten in any of this. The Public Sector will reduce dramatically in size but government spending will not come down anything like as quickly or as far.

susy Posted on 08/06/2010 11:27
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

I actually quite like Cameron, I think he does have charisma and I also see that he is a very very intelligent man. He has been handed a poisened chalice, I said long before the election that whoever got in were going to be unpopular and actually wished Labour we re elected so they would have to take the responsibility of making the decisions to put the country right again by making cuts... they never thought they stood a chance of getting in again and thats why we are in the mess we are in now.

As for the public sector pay cuts or wage freezes, I hope they do come to make people realise just how well off they really are... we always want more. People will hopefully realise that being in work that is payed reasonably well is much better than the alternative. I have seen redundancies been stopped by coworkers reducing their hours so that every one at least had a job.

speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 11:40
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

I agree with some of that susy. Not the stuff about Cameron's intellect - he's a big faced buffoon. But that pay cuts are far less bad in terms of economic recovery than redundancies.

However, the Tories have never been shy when ot comes to swelling the ranks of the jobless; they just see it as a supply and demand issue.

SNOWBANDIT Posted on 08/06/2010 11:50
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"Holding a referendum after the agreement had been ratified would be a bit odd legally. Not to mention probably meaning the immediate exclusion of the UK from the EU, since the rest had ratified. "

The Mandarins will have been making noises forsure that the UK wouldn't be trusted etc etc.

this being the same gang that have been pulling the wool over people eyes since the 1940's.

Cameron could easily of had a referendum - if the rest of the EU and FO wanted to bleat he should of had some gumption - something no one has had since Bevin.

As one of the biggest contributors funding wide - the EU - with all it's current woes would be ill advised to kick up too much.

the above was the most obvious show by the tories they wanted to lose.
He is not a willing patsy - but he is going to be unless he and the rest can be innovative and show real thirst for the task in hand.

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 11:52
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"As for the public sector pay cuts or wage freezes"

Its not just going to be pay freeze/cuts though, there'll be redundancies too, 1000's of them. What happens this year is the tip of the iceberg. Osborne is likely to slash a minimum of 500 000 public sector jobs over the next few years.

My worry is the way these savings will be made. I have no dout the 50p tax rate will go mid term, Osborne said as much before the election. The increase in Capital gains tax is causeing fractures throughout the coalition and the increase is likely to be minimal.

The predicted rise in Vat will hit the poorest the most. Vat is a regressive tax, its a tax favoured by the Tory party and Thatcher hammered the poor with it in the 80's while protecting the rich with decrease's in progressive taxes like Income Tax.

Things like cuts in school budgets and the NHS obviously hit the poor harder. The rich have private schools and Healthcare which will be unaffected.

The Tory party seem hell bent on making the poor pay for the bankers mistakes.

susy Posted on 08/06/2010 12:00
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

How bizarre, The rich have private schools and healthcare, you might be right about the schools however they still have to pay for the state schools and nhs hospitals like you or me. I also see that in private hospitals they have lots of NHS cases being performend under the choose and book system. That is too efficient to get rid of. There are limits as to what can be done in the private sector such as no accident or emergency or intensive care or expensive renal care etc etc the list is endless. The private hospitals generally cater for elective surgery where the patient is reasonably fit and well.

As for what will happen in the future, we have had it good for too long and now we have to pay for it so instead of rushing to the ballot box with your I am going on strike attitude please think about it again. Think long term and think of job losses.

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 12:11
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"There are limits as to what can be done in the private sector"

Yes there is but as in the 80's the average man will have to wait 18 months just to get on a waiting list while the rich will be unaffected and walk straight into a private hospital for an operation.

As always it will be the average mans health, education and living standards that decline while the rich will remain relatively unaffected, infact many of them will come out this stinky more of money than before. Nothing like a good recession to put your rivals out of business, reduce wages, decline employee rights and put the poor back in their place, 'just be thankful you have a job you oik!'

susy Posted on 08/06/2010 12:17
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

We cant afford what has been done, we could afford it when we did it, now the interest (which is at a low rate) is crippling us as it is.

It is the working class and middle class that will suffer most yes I agree with that, that was always going to be the case.

speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 12:19
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

'There are limits as to what can be done in the private sector'

You mean there are limits to what the private sector will risk investing in.

susy Posted on 08/06/2010 12:20
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Yes

southgates_elbow Posted on 08/06/2010 12:49
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

[:D][:D][:D] So much jealousy and envy in one deluded young man TB007! Its laughable! Your chums in the Unions were the cause of the pain in the 80's not Thatcher!

I seem to remember on your Thatcher thread where you vented your bile on her, that you did a XXXXXX job, then got another XXXXXX job then lost that and you now squelch of your hardworking missus while you sit online blaming a woman form 20 years ago for your problems!!! [:D][cr][:D][cr][:o)]

Ever heard of personal responsibility you utter utter clown? If i were your kid i would be utterly ashamed of you! Pathetic!


TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 12:59
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Another well reasoned argument with no personal insults from the right there[rle]. I guess i've annoyed you elbow.

"blaming a woman form 20 years ago for your problems!!!"

What problems? On the other thread Degsy asked me my work history and i obliged. Like i said the job i do now is the best i've ever had.

southgates_elbow Posted on 08/06/2010 13:03
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Yes 007 welching of your missus is a real good job![:D][:D][:D] You should be ashamed sunbeam!


speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 13:06
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

There's a hitherto unencountered use of the word 'welching'. And an all too familiar use of 'of'.

jam69 Posted on 08/06/2010 13:09
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

the multi millionaire govenment will hit the poorest in society and not his city chums who are most to blame,then tell us we are all in together,its just some of us have mummy and daddies money to act as a buffer,same old tories

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 13:11
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Ashamed of what? Bringing my children up, yes thats something to be ashamed of[rle]

Try to present an argument elbow. Try to break down my argument. Try to act like a grown up and not resort to pathetic name calling which makes you look very foolish indeed.

southgates_elbow Posted on 08/06/2010 14:29
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Bringing your children up? Hmm yeah, more like being lazy and not getting a job and living a parasitic existence of your wife![:D][:D] I am quite suprised she is still with you and not off out with someone who can hold down a job! Moreover, i think its someone else paying for your kids with you out of work and all, you know all those tax credits[:D]

TB007 has the temerity to attack me for name calling when he has entire threads dedicated to name calling anyone remotley right wing/ Thatcher/ Tories/ Daily Mail/ Cameron etc Pathetic 007 absolutly pathetic!

I think you might just find its the raging lefties on here that might be the guilty party when snuffing out normal debate!

The only foolish one is you 007 with your rabid Thatcher hating and blaming everyone else cos you cant get a job and its all Thatchers fault! boo hoo!

A pathetic disgrace of a boy you are 007![:D]

Me i just love winding up the hypocritical Lefties on here! The same people who personify why Teesside is doing as badly as it is!

speckyget Posted on 08/06/2010 14:41
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

Yes, you're welching like crazy.

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/06/2010 14:57
Has Cameron been set up as the national patsy?

"I think you might just find its the raging lefties on here that might be the guilty party when snuffing out normal debate!"

You don't have a debate. Your threads are just a series of smilies and name calling. Do you even have a point to make or are you just going to continue making presumptions about someone you don't know?

"Me i just love winding up the hypocritical Lefties on here! "

Winding people up? In what way exactly? You aren't bright enough to wind anyone up but if in your little mind you think you are then please continue to make a fool of yourself.