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Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:31
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

The squad is better than last time because the players who are there have improved over the last 4 years.
Lampard , Stevie G , Rooney , Cole , Cole , Even Crouch.
Plus we have a better mix of younger players Milner , Lennon G Johnson we where unlucky to go out in the q-finals last time on pens again so i think we have just as good a chance as anybody else.
Look at the other squads apart from 3 or 4 outstanding players same as what we have no squad stands out for me to cruise it [^].

scobba Posted on 02/06/2010 11:32
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

shakes head and walks away

djlocky9999 Posted on 02/06/2010 11:34
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

yes, spain's squad only has 3-4 good oustanding players....

Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas, Pepe Reina, Víctor Valdés

Defenders: Raúl Albiol, Álvaro Arbeloa, Joan Capdevila, Carlos Marchena, Gerard Piqué, Carles Puyol, Sergio Ramos

Midfielders: Xabi Alonso, Sergi Busquets, Cesc Fàbregas, Andrés Iniesta, Javi Martínez, David Silva, Xavi Hernández,

Strikers: Jesús Navas, Juan Mata, Pedro Rodríguez, Fernando Llorente, Fernando Torres, David Villa.

petedreadnought Posted on 02/06/2010 11:36
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

I think England have an easy group and in the easiest half of the draw (should we top the group), but the England squad doesn't really compare to that of Brazil and Spain's.

Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:37
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Only 4 world class players in that Squad that are no better than Rooney Stevie G Lampard & A Cole

Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:39
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

If our 2 center backs are fit & on form they are as good as any other pairing.

scobba Posted on 02/06/2010 11:40
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

but they are not on form and neither is gerrard when did rooney last score for england

petedreadnought Posted on 02/06/2010 11:41
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

[:D]

Only four world class player in Spain's squad???

They've got that many in their midfield.

BobbyG Posted on 02/06/2010 11:41
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Spanish & Brazillian players just sound better because they have fancy names [^]

scobba Posted on 02/06/2010 11:44
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

and play better

Genghis_Khan Posted on 02/06/2010 11:44
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

With the exception of Ashley Cole, all those players you mentioned are much worse than they were 4 years ago.

Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:45
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Name me five then that would get in a current world best xi.

boksic Posted on 02/06/2010 11:45
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Monkey - Players don't improve, we have established that on here. What you see is what you get.

England win around 60% of all competive matches, whoever is in charge. That means we qualify for the major championships MOST of the time and when we get there we qaulify from the group stages MOST of the time. What that win percentage will not guarantee is progress to the final or a win.

That makes England top 10 in the world, which is about right considering the key factors in international football strength. These are:

* Size of population
* Resources committed to football
* Strength of the national league

scobba Posted on 02/06/2010 11:45
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

can't name one

Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:48
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

I am sure Italy & France where not expected to be playing the last Final anyone of 6 teams could be in the Final inc us.

Monkey_Ball_Knackers Posted on 02/06/2010 11:51
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

You can't name 1 i would put 3 max spanish in.

petedreadnought Posted on 02/06/2010 11:53
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

So your definition of "world class" is only those that would fit into a world best xi?

allied_assault Posted on 02/06/2010 11:54
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

* Size of population
* Resources committed to football
* Strength of the national league

Not sure about this argument at all.

The champions league has been dominated by the English teams recently and if Rooney had stayed fit Man U would have probably won the Champions League this season or been in the final again.
Fulham got to the UEFA Cup Final and Liverpool semis.
I think you are all underestimating the strength of our league and indeed our squad.
We absolutely murdered Croatia and not many teams do that.
Our strongest eleven will give anyone a game.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 02/06/2010 11:56
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Allied. English teams that are mostly full of foreigners does not help the Englnad team.

If everybody is fit for Man Utd at most they'd have 4 English player. Brown, Carrick, Ferdinand, Rooney. Chelsea would have 3 Terry, Cole, Lampard.

sitheman Posted on 02/06/2010 11:57
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Not sure if we have a chance of winning the world cup but we certainly have a chance of getting very far.

Easy group
good side of the draw

These two points means that we cannot play Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Portugal until the semi finals.

The 'difficult' games we will likely have are Germany & France both of which will be epci occasions and games which will have England as firm favourites.

Other reasons to be cheerful are the almost faultless qualifying campaign. Rooney in the form of his career. Gerrard and Lampard finally able to play together. Crouch and Defoe both with good records for England. An identified and working system. Threat from the bench which we have never had in the past.

boksic Posted on 02/06/2010 11:59
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Allied - these are the factors that matter, trust me. What I find odd is that people are perfectly willing to see Andorra or San Marino's international strength (weakness) in the context of their population but struggle apply it to Brazil.

I agree with you that England's strongest 11 will "give anyone a game". Dead right and we win around 60% of the time which correlates to the quarters or semis of the world cup or euro championships. I am not syaing England CAN'T win the WC, but quarters or semis is the MORE LIKELY outcome for a team with this level of strength.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 02/06/2010 12:01
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Boksic if you had any accurate formula you'd retire and become a professional gambler, it's all guess work like the rest of us.

allied_assault Posted on 02/06/2010 12:01
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Not to mention a manager who will have a 'team' and is as good as anyone out there sitheman.

boksic Posted on 02/06/2010 12:04
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

"English teams that are mostly full of foreigners does not help the Englnad team." - Wrong.

As I said above one of the 3 factors is strength of the national league and this holds irrespective of the amount of "foreign" talent playing in it. Ask yourself this, were England significantly better pre 1994 when the number of foreign players in the top division was dramatically lower? No of course not.

For this reason we can say that, from an England perspective, there are not enough foreign players in the premier league.

allied_assault Posted on 02/06/2010 12:06
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Good point Ghengis but take this into account.
Carrick, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, A Cole, J Cole, Rio, Terry Carragher, have all had great experience in the Champions League and have all probably played in the Final.
That is about 70% of our team.
I am really optimistic and mainly because of Capello.

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 12:10
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

we have zero chance of winning, get a grip man. A better squad this time? I don;'t think so.

GK -
2006 - Robinson, James Carson
2010 - James, Green, Hart
= Our first choice was second choice last time, and he was too old 4 years ago, he is past his best.

DF -
2006 firwst choice - Neville, Rio, Terry, Cole
2010 first choice - Johnson, Rio, Terry, Cole
= NEville could defend, Johnson can't. Rio and Terry 4 years ago were better players than they are right now.

DF ressies 2006 - Campbell, Bridge, Carragher
DF ressies - 2010 - Carragher, King, Upson, Warnock
How many international games have the 2010 ressies played in the last 2 years? About 3 starts between them?

MF 2006 - Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, J Cole
MF 2010 - Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, J Cole
The 2006 team had only 1 player shoehorned into the wrong position. We could have 2 or 3 of the 2010 midfield playing out of position. None of the current team can play a deadball or cross like Beckham or inspirational leadership. Lampard is arguably a better player, but Gerrard is arguably worse.

2006 MF ressies - Hargreaves, Jenas, Carrick, Lennon, Downing.
2010 MF ressies - SWP, Carrick, Lennon, Milner
= Hargreaves was an excellant player, there are questions over all of our current ressies. Milner has had a great season but has been poor in his limited England games.

ST 2006 - Rooney, Owen, Crouch, Walcott
ST 2010 - Rooney, Defoe, Crouch, Heskey
= Rooney and Crouch are better players now, but we still haven't got any strength in depth.


SUMMARY:
We are still rubbish.

PREDICTION:
Stumble through the groups, an easy second round game, knocked out in quarters against the first good side we meet.

KingOfTheTribes Posted on 02/06/2010 12:13
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Capello rates Heskey ffs...

boksic Posted on 02/06/2010 12:15
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Ghengis - it's the opposite of guess work but as football is a relatively low scoring sport luck is as much of a factor in a one off knockout game as anything else, particularly if the game ends as a draw and goes to penalties.

The factors I ahve outlined are the ones that underlie performance, they do not turn into a foolproof prediction system.

I had a mate who made a lot of money out of gmabling. He owned a bookies.

Big_Shot Posted on 02/06/2010 12:16
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Milner actually impressed for England when used from the bench, usually down the left. It was these performances that made him a cert for the World Cup squad. Not sure why anyone would say he's been poor.

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 13:18
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

he had one good 20 mins from the bench. He awful when he started the other day, absolutely rank awful.

allied_assault Posted on 02/06/2010 13:40
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

My reason why we can win the World Cup.


Link: C'mon England

Big_Shot Posted on 02/06/2010 14:24
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

So he had one bad game for England, rather than being poor in his appearances. On the back of a good season for his club. To me, he seems one of the players least deserving of a slating.

_EVO_ Posted on 02/06/2010 14:29
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup...2 words

Fabio Capello[^]

robert_huths_niggling_injuries Posted on 02/06/2010 15:54
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Spains work class players:

Casillas
Fabregas
Xavi
Iniesta
Torres
Villa
Xabi Alonso

Plus, their players that aren't quite world class are probably on a par with most England players:

Pique
Puyol
Ramos
Navas
Busquets

Nero Posted on 02/06/2010 15:59
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

We will not win the World Cup. The best we can hope for is the last 4.

I truly hope I'm very much wrong.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 16:09
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Big_Shot, he has had 7 carp performances for Enlgand and one decent 20 min performance.

I'm not slating him, he is a fine player, but he has yet to really have any impression on hte international game.

Big_Shot Posted on 02/06/2010 16:19
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

But he hasn't though. He has had a few impressive cameo roles as a second half sub. Maybe a couple of average showings as well. But definitely not 7 crap performances.

Hercules Posted on 02/06/2010 16:23
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

boksic, considering you have some very good points to make backed up by actual facts, you talk far too much XXXXXX to even consider attempting to address it all in one thread.

newyddion Posted on 02/06/2010 16:27
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

--------------James------------

Johnson--Terry--Ferdinand--Cole

???????--Gerrard--Lampard--????

---------??????---Rooney-------

World class players.

Nero Posted on 02/06/2010 16:28
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

James and Johnson?!?

You're having a laugh?

Ferdinand was top quality, but his injuries this season have severely dented his abilities. Namely, he doesn't seem as fast anymore.

And James? [:D]

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 16:34
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Gerrard isn't world class either, not anymore.

boro74 Posted on 02/06/2010 20:30
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Rooney is one of the best forwards in the world and is capable of deciding a game by himself. He's just had a brilliant season and is on top form.

Lampard and Gerard are dynamic in midfield and dangerous finishers. They can also take good free kicks.

The central defence pairing Terry/Ferdinand is one of the best in the world.

We have an excellent manager in Capello.

We were excellent in qualifying, beating Croatia 4-1 and 5-1.

In freindlies we won 2-1 in Germany ,drew 2-2 with Holland and beat African champions Egypt 3-1.

We go to South Africa full of confidence.

We are in the easier half of the draw, avoiding Brazil, Spain, Holland, Italy until the last 4.

It's winter down there which will suit our style of play.

That'll do for starters. [:D][^]

foggysfplandiet Posted on 02/06/2010 20:32
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

"Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup"

Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, Argentina and Italy have all withdrawn?

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 21:29
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Unbelievable how pessimistic people are. Our first 11 is quality. If they stay fit we've got as good a chance as any.

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 21:34
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Presumably all those who say we have no chance have duly layed the 7.6 odds on us. [^]

Not_Smog Posted on 02/06/2010 21:36
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

We have a balanced defense, two genuine attacking fullbacks in Johnson and Cole.

We have a combative midfield if Gareth Barry can get fit and real pace with Lennon and SWP.

In Wayne Rooney we have a world class striker and i really hope against the big nations we revert to a 451 and use Rooney in his Manure with Gerrard just behind him.

-------------------James-------------------

G.Johnson--R.Ferdinand--J.Terry--A.Cole--


------------G.Barry----F.Lampard----------


A.Lennon------------------------------J.Cole

------------------------S.Gerrard----------

-----------------W.Rooney------------------

That side would give anyone a game and has a shot at winning the title.

lmao_tb_xx Posted on 02/06/2010 21:38
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Just looked at the Spain squad locky put up, it's actually not all that good when you look at it.

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 21:41
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Not all that good? It's outstanding ffs...[ref]

lmao_tb_xx Posted on 02/06/2010 21:45
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

They have 2 outstanding keepers.

Defence is shaky, Puyol looks like a good player to a casual Spanish football watcher but in reality he's rash and a decent player could rip him a newwun. Ramos is a good player, but he's a right back.

Midfield is good. Xavi is excellent i'll give them that much. Iniesta has had a poor season and is just coming back from injury, as is Fabregas.

Strikers are top drawer, but Torres is struggling with injury as well.

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 21:50
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

[:D]

They are easily the best squad at the tournament, but okay... They're not all that good. [ref]

lmao_tb_xx Posted on 02/06/2010 22:01
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Aaah good argument there.

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 22:09
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

There's no argument to be had. Casillas, Reina, Ramos, Xavi, Silva, Alonso, Fabregas, Iniesta, Pedro, Torres, Villa. They are jam packed with top class players. They have 6 midfielders that would walk in to our first team.

They may not have the big names at the back but they are good defenders. Not that they have much to do, because most opposing teams barely get a sniff of the ball against the Spaniards.

Best team in the world by a distance.

lmao_tb_xx Posted on 02/06/2010 22:21
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

"Casillas, Reina"

I agree, but you can only pick 1 goalkeeper la'.

Ramos - good player but ultimately is just a right back.

Xavi - worldy

Silva - No better than what we've got

Alonso - Good player, but not amazing.

Fabregas - Good player, but no better than Lampard.

Iniesta - Poor season and is unfit

Pedro - Unproven

Torres - Crocked

Villa - worldy

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 22:25
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Well you can't really argue against Spain been warm favs, 1 defeat in the last 45 is pretty slick.

Dunno about 4/1 mind.

lmao_tb_xx Posted on 02/06/2010 22:31
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Don't get me wrong, Spain are a good side, they're just not as good as people are making out. I think Brazil are by far and away the strongest side at this tournament.

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 22:33
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Ramos - Just a right back? So we could sling Curtis Fleming in there because it's only right back. He's an immense right back and centre half.

Silva - Would walk on to either flank for England. Better than Lennon, Wright - Phillips, and Lennon.

Alonso - Exactly the type of player that England need. Puts Gareth Barry to shame.

Fabregas - Lampard couldn't lace his boots.

Iniesta - The same could be said for Gerrard. Still a genius. Adrenaline will see him through. These lads are proper athletes. He wont have let himself get out of shape or he wouldn't be going.

Pedro - If a lad who scores 23 goals for Barcelona is unproven then fair enough. He's still better than any of the wingers we're taking.

Torres - Rooney

Dont forget fringe players like Busquets, Navas and arbeloa. I'd have those three rather than Carrick, Heskey and Carragher.

Who do you think has the best squad at the world cup?

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 22:39
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

How can you possibly say Brazil are stronger than Spain? Their forward line looks average at best. Midfield doesn't look great either. Some Premier League rejects in amongst it. We're stronger than Brazil, never mind Spain.

Brazil squad: Goalkeepers: Julio Cesar (Inter Milan), Doni (AS Roma), Gomes (Tottenham Hotspur)
Defenders: Maicon (Inter Milan), Daniel Alves (Barcelona), Michel Bastos (Olympique Lyon), Gilberto (Cruzeiro), Lucio (Inter Milan), Juan (AS Roma), Luisao (Benfica), Thiago Silva (AC Milan)
Midfielders: Gilberto Silva (Panathinaikos), Felipe Melo (Juventus), Ramires (Benfica), Elano (Galatasaray), Kaka (Real Madrid), Julio Baptista (Roma), Kleberson (Flamengo), Josue (VfL Wolfsburg).
Forwards: Robinho (Santos), Luis Fabiano (Sevilla), Nilmar (Villarreal), Grafite (VfL Wolfsburg).

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 22:45
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

some people ened to get a grip, we are miles behind Spain, Italy, Holand and Brazil. Teams like Argentina have more strength in depth, and teams like the USA and Ivory Coast are catching us fast.

"We were excellent in qualifying" - no we were not, we struggled to keep cleansheets which is worrying. We battered the minows but you don't get many of them in the WCFs.

In 4 games against half decent sides (Ukraine and Croatia) we let goals in. Kazahkstan and Belarus also scored against us.

Add friendlies into it and it's 2 cleansheets in 11 games in 09-10, we have played 3 top sides this season and got 1 draw and 2 defeats.

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 22:48
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Well why the hell are we 3rd favourites then ?

Because were miles behind the sides who are bigger odds ?

Fact is we have a good chance, we qualified easily scoring a lot of goals, have a very expreienced and reliable manger, will have good support have a favourable group and draw, and will find the climate to our liking, all points to a good run. [^]

Easy Posted on 02/06/2010 22:52
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

I think we'll do well. I just couldn't believe the post that said Spain's squad 'isn't all that good'...

Just because you have the best players doesn't guarantee winning. Our best 11 can compete with anyone. [^]

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 22:52
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

"Well why the hell are we 3rd favourites then ?" -- do you understand how a bookmaker operates? The odds reflect teh amount of money bet and is nothing to do with the relative merits of the side. It's pure algarithmic management of money bet against potential loses.

The british bookies will have been inundated by patriotic fools. We might be third with british bookies, but go to germany or spain or south america and we will be 5th or 6th and 20/1.

"Fact is we have a good chance, qualified easily scoring a lot of golas" - against nothing sides. 2 decent performances against a Croatia side who are not that good anymore does not a good team make.

I remeber euro '88 we qualified unbeaten and big favourites with the english bookies....we lost every game because we finally played some good sides..Russia, Holland, Ireland, rather then qualifying teams of a poor Yugo, Northern Ireland and whipping boys Turkey. Qualification stats mean nothing.

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 22:58
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Go and find me a foreign firm that doesn't have eng as 3rd or at worst 4th favs to win it, most bookies irrespective of where they are are no bigger than 8/1 on England, it's a myth all this patriotic money tosh.


Michael_Debeve Posted on 02/06/2010 23:06
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Boksic, you've forgot the "experience" factor. That's right, i read books aswell

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 23:09
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

betsson, tabonline.com, bodog, canbet, centrebet, bwin, nordicbet, betcity.ru, fonbet, 188bet and 12bet.

Books from all over the world there, I'd be amazed if there any bigger than 8's with any of them, more like 7's so on avg there 3rd favs maybe the Argies with some just pip them to it, but 3rd favs with most non uk books this has nothing to do with patriotic betting.

Hope this helps.

Boromart Posted on 02/06/2010 23:10
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

offside-again, it really doesn';t mater. Odds reflect batting patterns nothing more. English people put money on England out of blind patriotism, some foreigners put money on because we have the most highly visible league and because we have a high profile and history....but very little of that affects our ability to win. The ability of players like Gerard and the Cole twins is exaggerated in other countries by Mr Murdoch as a marketing tool.

Your just setting yourself up for a fall because we won't win it, I've seen it all before, this pre-competition bravado and hype.

offside-again Posted on 02/06/2010 23:14
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

i actually don't think we will win it nor do i think we are value i'm simply saying they are pretty much 3rd favs with all bookmakers, the no chance brigade to me just sound a bit silly seen as how we are in the top few sides in the betting.

Guess it's one most people would love to be wrong about though which to be fair is probably pretty much why they say it, i just shrug my shoulders and say we have a decent chance, heres hoping. [;)]

boro74 Posted on 03/06/2010 12:25
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Are the other teams in our group better than us?

No!

We are likely to finish top.

Do Serbia, Ghana or Australia have better players than us?

No!

So we'll probably make the last 8.

Who do we play then?
France? South Africa? Mexico?
There's no reason that we can't beat them.

Okay, in the last 4 we will almost certainly meet a team that is better than us. But we are hard to beat and in one game anything is possible.

I can see us making the final.

newyddion Posted on 03/06/2010 12:27
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Nero
David James holds the Premier League record for most clean sheets.

newyddion Posted on 03/06/2010 12:28
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Yes and Glen Johnson.


Link: Glen Johnson

newyddion Posted on 03/06/2010 12:34
Reason why we have a chance of winning the World Cup

Right Wing: Aaron Lennon
Left Wing: Joe Cole
Striker: Peter Crouch