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nor_mate Posted on 24/05/2010 18:22
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

know a few of the younger lads in the squad and have been speaking to them today. They said it's just been non stop solid work. Strach/Pendrey/McAllister running a proper tight ship and no ones being cut any slack whatsoever. Most of the squad are absolutely fuked already.

well in Strach/Pendrey/McAllister [^]

Cooper671 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:25
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

What goods that like, they all be off on the jollys soon getting lashed

nor_mate Posted on 24/05/2010 18:27
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

how can any fitness not be good? It's giving them a good base for their 4 weeks off before pre season properly starts.

they're all getting personal regimes too that they've got to stick to in the 4 weeks they're off as well.

mickymacc Posted on 24/05/2010 18:31
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

No pain no gain,finally earning their wedge.The day will still only last 4-6 hours with split training.Still a cushy life and will do em good.[^]

Cooper671 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:38
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

All footballers get a personal regime over the holidays and have a target weight to come back at etc.

I was saying what good is it you saying well done working them into the ground when they going to spend next 4 weeks sat on their arse on a beach getting XXXXXXed

ray192 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Cooper

If they hadn't gone for this weeks training !! it would have been 5 weeks [sad] so yes it's definitely worth it [^]

sasboro1 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:45
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

they will all be feeling jaded by xmas [;)] If it's such a good idea then why dont other clubs do it too?

leroy Posted on 24/05/2010 18:46
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

i heard starchan the other day saying something like only 8 of our 1st team squad had played more than 25 games last season, they should all be raring to go

Cooper671 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:47
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I know no other club does it and they seem to cope alright, why did they need to take em to la manga? could have worked them into the ground at hurworth, they'll all be going abroad anyways, didnt need an extra trip

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 24/05/2010 18:49
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

La Manga has a world-class golf course as well as the training facilities. [^]

Cooper671 Posted on 24/05/2010 18:50
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Ah that explains it then, they all bored of playing on gibsons now ?

boroboymike Posted on 24/05/2010 19:02
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Wonder if they've trained Flood, O'Neil or Arca on how to cross the halfway line yet.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/05/2010 19:04
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Talked to my son yesterday, he sounded wrecked. He was off for a kip and it was only 4.30 in the afternoon.

Strachans_Tossed_Caber Posted on 24/05/2010 19:46
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Who is your son??

mr_maz Posted on 24/05/2010 19:47
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

his brothers nephew

Strachans_Tossed_Caber Posted on 24/05/2010 19:49
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

oh, I see.

JLinardi Posted on 24/05/2010 20:41
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D][^]

Sleaford Posted on 25/05/2010 09:13
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D][:D]

"Wonder if they've trained Flood, O'Neil or Arca on how to cross the halfway line yet."
[^]

gravyboat Posted on 25/05/2010 09:58
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

'they will all be feeling jaded by xmas If it's such a good idea then why dont other clubs do it too?'

Maybe because the squad is inheritally unfit?

The consistent trend of conceding late goals, and our complete inability to get back into games after going behind, for what must be about 3 years now, tends to support this idea.

Sleaford Posted on 25/05/2010 10:00
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Weren't we 2nd or 3rd on the first half performance table and about 16th on the second half table as well?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 10:10
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

gravyboat, i think it's more down to the players you have and the tactics you play. we were a very defensive minded team last season. very cautious. i think most clubs are at optimimum fitness than extra probably makes very little difference. the club have been telling us for years how rockcliffe is the state of the art training facilities. it wasnt long ago they were boasting how all the equipment can be tailored for each individual player to get the best fitness out of them.

i think this training thing is strachan making noises to impress gibson/lamb after underachieved since he arrived. if it made so much difference dont you think most clubs would be doing the same. anyway isnt preseason meant to be there to get their fitness levels back up.

just dont be surprised if we have more than normal muscle injuries in mid season

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 10:15
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

spot on Sleaford.

I think those complaining are the usual ones who would complain about the lack of fitness if we didn't do this.

Things have to change at this club, attitudes have to change, players have to toughen up a bit. This seems a good way of doing it.

gravyboat Posted on 25/05/2010 10:22
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Yeah, that's quite a lot of speculation based upon nothing though. Strachan is a professional manager who has won trophies. The idea that he would lead the entire squad on a pre-season training camp, when actually, deep down, he didn't think they needed it, and was just doing to 'impress' Gibson, is a bit far-fetched if you ask me.

Maybe its not just about fitness, but attitude too. 'This is you're job, you're handsomely paid, it's about time youo starteed concentrating on it'

Ultimately, we've had 3 years of watching terrible football dished up by a bunch of heartless fanny's. As such, I'm happy for Strachan to make changes to pretty much everything.


hewielewie Posted on 25/05/2010 10:23
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"i think this training thing is strachan making noises to impress gibson/lamb after underachieved since he arrived"

That Sas, is bollox

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 10:27
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

obviously strachan is underpressure to make an impact in the new season. he failed last season so he has to try something else. not sure if running the club like an army boot camp will work with modern footballers anymore. we will just have to see if these super fit players will suddenly become good players. would be interesting to know why the top clubs dont have a boot camp during the closed season

in the end you can get players as fit as you can but its about ability. we aiont going to go up unless we bring aboiut 4 players who are proven top players at this level

Kilburn Posted on 25/05/2010 10:35
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I doubt Strachan is feeling much pressure at all. When he took the job, he did so saying that he didn't need to work but fancied the challenge. Since then he has struck me as someone who rightly or wrongly feels that he has nothing left to prove after Celtic. He would probably laugh at the suggestion that he is under pressure here.

gravyboat Posted on 25/05/2010 10:39
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

sas is feeling the pressure for him.


HelmutSchmutz Posted on 25/05/2010 10:40
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Perhaps he feels they're not fit enough at the minute and is doing this to give them a good level of fitness. They'll go away have 4 weeks rest and I'd imagine light training after this to recover then into pre season with a base of fitness already there. Come the start of the season they'll come out of the blocks quickley and build some momentum for a promotion push.......... Maybe

mikehunt Posted on 25/05/2010 10:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

On this occasion I agree.
Fitness should be a given, it hasn't been, o Strachan is right to step it up.

But its quality and ability we are most short of.
Those who say we are better than the blackpool's etc are deluded. They are no good, but we are no better.

Just on the fitness bit.
If your boss said, "Take thee weeks off, then I'm going to work you hard for a week in the sun, then take another four weeks off" would you feel hard done by ?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 10:46
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"I doubt Strachan is feeling much pressure at all"

ofcourse not. promotion was expected last season. thats why he was brought in wasnt it. longer we stay in theis league the harder it becomes to get back up. do you think gibson is content that we finished 11th.

Strachan knows the importance of a good start and thats why he is giving this boot camp a try. If we dont have a good start he could be out the door. we cant afford to stay in this league much longer

gravyboat Posted on 25/05/2010 10:47
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

sas, I think you're missing the point. Strachan doesn't need the work - he could walk away tomorrow and still provide for himself and his family. So where's the pressure?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 25/05/2010 10:48
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Gibson said that he didn't think promotion would be achieved under Southgate so decided to make a change. A very good change it was aswell appointing Strachan and an excellent idea to put the squad through its paces in La Manga. Fitness levels will be maintained and team bonding will improve.

Kilburn Posted on 25/05/2010 10:50
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

That would make him feel under pressure if he found the prospect of being 'out of the door' worrying, Sas. I don't believe he does.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 10:51
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"sas, I think you're missing the point. Strachan doesn't need the work - he could walk away tomorrow and still provide for himself and his family. So where's the pressure? "

dont think i am missing the point at all. you can say the same about most managers at this level as they have a few bob in the bank. he will be under pressure and feeling it I am sure, otherwise he doesnt care about the job.if he can easily walk away if he wanted to then his heart isnt in the job is it. any football manager will tell you about the stress and pressure it brings. having money in the bank doesnt matter. just look at managers like big sam/souness who have had heart/health problems

sambaDTR Posted on 25/05/2010 10:55
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Bruce Rioch used to do the same thing to get them super fit. That team managed two promotions with a squad of about 16 players. Compare that to the number of players we used last year.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 10:56
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

then he got sacked when we were struggling in the 2nd tier. did it work for him at arsenal?

dont get me wrong it is great having a really fit squad but at this level of football i think that extra 5% fitness has limited impact as all clubs have their players very fit these days and use machines and techmology to achieve it. you can have teh fittest squad in the league but not much use if the ability isnt there

captain5 Posted on 25/05/2010 11:01
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

How is the psychology PHd going, sas??

Is there anyone else's mindest you feel confident on commenting on.

If we weren't going on this training trip you'd spin it the other way and ask why we weren't doing anything.

With regards to late goals conceded, you'll notice if you look that the number of late goals (and particularly late goals) conceded ratio has dropped markedly since Strachan has taken.

Strachan has already admitted what the problems are and has made changes that he thinks will help us.

The changes between now and last year are quite marked.

Pretty much all of the coaching staff have changed and we have pretty much all the wasters out of the squad or on their way.

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 11:02
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

". it wasnt long ago they were boasting how all the equipment can be tailored for each individual player to get the best fitness out of them."
A fool with a tool is still a fool......Southgate and his coaching staff where the fools. If you have all that equipment yet you continually fail to play to the 90 minutes then there is no other explanation. If it was out tactics...well I'm sorry but the goals against would be much more evenly spread than they were.

Kilburn Posted on 25/05/2010 11:02
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Essentially there are two types of pressure for managers, financial and reputational. Most feel one or the other, or both. I think Strachan is in the unusual position of feeling neither. He is financially comfortable and believes that he has proved himself in a much bigger job already.

I'm not saying for a minute that he doesn't care. He was always the kind of competitor who hates losing, but caring and feeling pressure are different things.

MAD_POG Posted on 25/05/2010 11:04
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Top players/teams do not do it ?

With the world cup/euros,european football etc. the top players rarely get more than 4 weeks off.

I thing GS just thought that with our season finishing early the break was too long.

Therfore rather than bringing them back early he split the training camps in 2.

Mido is probably the best example of players who do not stick to their personal training regime while away.

I bet no player comes back out of shape under GS [:D]

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 11:06
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"not sure if running the club like an army boot camp will work with modern footballers anymore............would be interesting to know why the top clubs dont have a boot camp during the closed season"

I think you answered your own question Sas. Prima Donna's will not like it. Fact is we are a championship team with champioship players, not superstar prima donna's anymore.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 11:09
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

PHD is going aswell as everyones on here too![^]

"The changes between now and last year are quite marked."

is it really, hasnt show on the pitch though. apart from getting worse

We could have a team full off robbie mustoes and GONs who can run all day and fittest in the league but it wont get us promoted.

"With regards to late goals conceded, you'll notice if you look that the number of late goals (and particularly late goals) conceded ratio has dropped markedly since Strachan has taken."

but funny the results are just as bad if not worse. ie cant beat top 8 sides. maybe the issue is the quality of the players not the fitness. leicester got a penalty in 84th minutes. WBA got a goal in injury time of first half,palace scored in injury time of first half too, newcastle scored in the 82nd minute,blackpool scored in injury time...did it really improve?

maybe its more down to the quality of players and how we are defensive,defend deeper and deeper as the game goes on.

but we shall see next season.


Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 11:09
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

mikehunt, I don't agree that Blackpool have better players.

If we bought DJ Campbell up front and Brett Ormerod to fix our left wing problem would our fans be happy no way. What about Baptiste at the back? No chance. Man for man we have more ability, but I think they had fitter and more focussed/hungry players and a settled team.

atomicloonybin Posted on 25/05/2010 11:10
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Interesting development to me. Just to note that every NFL team does this - they have a mini-camp of about a week in June, then full pre-season training in July and August. So perhaps that's where they've filched the idea from.

Personally, I think we've looked unfgit for years. Might be the players we've bought but we look knackered comparitively at the end of virtually every game.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 11:11
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"With the world cup/euros,european football etc. the top players rarely get more than 4 weeks off."

and doesnt everyone complain about it. and the palyes come back later for preseason training to give them a rest?

MAD_POG Posted on 25/05/2010 11:13
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

No everyone says they need a rest e.g 4 weeks not 8 weeks.

I am not saying the team does not get a break but 6/8/10 weeks is to long.


sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 11:16
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

it's just interesting that none of the big clubs do it the summers inbetween the international tournaments.

fingers crossed strachan is a genius and discoverd soemthing and we hit the ground running and storm the league by xmas![^]


JLinardi Posted on 25/05/2010 12:41
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

FFS Sas there at a training camp in Spain for a week, who knows what the motives are behind it all. Why are you so bothered about it? If they wernt training you'd only be moaning that they were getting paid fortunes for sitting on their backsides. Pointless or not, does it affect your life in a negative way? No, get over it.

God knows what you will be like if the new shirt has no white band again [:O]

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 12:45
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I'm not bothered, just people are under the impression it is going to make a difference next season.

as for the new shirt. who cares wil it make us play better? i doubt it. only errea did that

EmnesDread Posted on 25/05/2010 13:03
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D][:D][^][^]

I hope Strachan gets the lads down to Redcar for running sessions in the sea early in the morning like he did at Celtic, that would surprise a few of the players.
[^][^][ref][ref]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 25/05/2010 13:27
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I'm all for an intensive training camp, but all athletes need rest periods. The best time for this is at the end of the season. All I can think of is that he will get them fitter than ever, and then over the summer, all they have to do is keep the fitness levels ticking over and they will be at that level (or close to it) come July.

Personally, I'd have given them a month off before doing this, then bring them up to fitness over a fortnight or so, with another fortnight off until pre-season training, giving players their work to do for a couple of weeks to keep it ticking over until they return for pre-season training.

EmnesDread Posted on 25/05/2010 13:31
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

They've had a couple weeks off, more than enough time to rest for a weeks training, then they get another 3 weeks off before pre season.

They will all realise it was worth it when theyre lifting the trophy next year, and looking forward to Premiership football[^]

Strachan is exactly the manager this club needed[^]

Up the Boro

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 13:37
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

PTCFT - I think Strachan is doubtful about giving a load of young footballers a full month off when he thought they weren't fit enough to begin with.

This seems like Strachan saying "this is how it is..." and those that fall short of the expected levels will be moved on.

He did talk about using this trip to find out who in the squad is "mentally weak" too, so this trip is a completely worthwhile exercise in my opinion.

We've not been fit enough for years, we've had the same problems in games for years and a change of approach has to be worth looking at.

It would have been nice to have a couple more new signings in the squad in time to travel over there like.

SouthStandSY Posted on 25/05/2010 13:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Afraid i'm like Sas, sorry & all that BUT Strachan should forget about flogging his squad in close season (playing up to the fans & Gibbo in the process, while no doubt demoralising his squad - who will know where the shortcomings really lie), while pointing out that SAF delivered success like he has for yrs off the back of this & consider the fact that Manure also had the best players, he should be on the phone & trying to secure the likes of Speroni, Ambrose, Chopra, Whttingham etc, because that's what you do in close season - secure the best available players IF you want do well, as the teams with the best players invariably have success, IF by some chance we do secure players of this calibre & not some 3rd rate bums, it'll be that that secures promotion, not a half baked close season trip to La Manga!......

Adi_Dem Posted on 25/05/2010 13:52
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

He'll be doing both SouthStandSY. I am delighted with his approach and no matter what anyone says no-one will convince me that a fitter squad isn't a good thing.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 13:52
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

SouthStandSY - That has to be one of the biggest loads of nonsense i've read on this board for at least a week.

So because Strachan is out training his players in Spain he isn't looking to be bringing in new players? Nonsense, we have mobile phones these days you know.

Playing up to Gibbo and demoralising his squad? Nonsense, he thinks the players aren't fit enough so he's took them to a training camp where he will familiarise them with a new first-team coach.

I don't know how you can say it's "half-baked" when we don't know the results yet.

Many of us have said for years that we could be fitter, sharper and stronger. Strachan must think this too or he wouldn't bother doing this kind of thing. He's an experienced manager, who has managed at the top level, he knows what it takes and can see when a team needs to be fitter. If he thinks this will help us next season, then i for one support him.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 25/05/2010 13:54
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"They've had a couple weeks off, more than enough time to rest for a weeks training, then they get another 3 weeks off before pre season."

Fair enough. All I'm saying is that I'd have done it the other way round. 3-4 weeks off now, then 10-14 days off prior to pre-season training.


SouthStandSY Posted on 25/05/2010 14:00
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Hey, i am one of the few that seems to like Strachan, i like what he says in interviews, it makes sense to me, BUT someone should ask him if he knows whether SAF still employs these methods or whether they belong to a bygone age, i would like nothing more than to be proved wrong & this fitness camp be the key element that's gonna get us back up, BUT i fear you need the players onboard aswell & all i see is us shedding premiership quality players & our targets being strongly linked to our rivals - this needs to be sorted to our advantage & fast, otherwise i fear we'll miss the boat.....

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 14:09
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Fair enough SSSY.

I'm just deciding to go with him, Strachan, on this one. I think he knows what we need and he will set about achieving it. If a hard slog in the Spanish sunshine is what it takes to get us moving then so be it.

I think most of the players will enjoy working under him, this trip is for their benefit. If they can't see that and don't want to work, they can feel free to move down a level and miss the chance of improving themselves.

SmogOnTheRhine Posted on 25/05/2010 14:12
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

This certainly doesn't belong to a bygone age... that was more like 10 weeks off on the beer and cigarettes.

Why any professional athlete needs more than 3 or 4 weeks rest per year is beyond me.

What Strachan and his staff will be doing during this week will be more analysis of individuals - what are their weak points, what do they need to focus on in their subsequent 4 weeks away.

Real training will start after this 4 weeks when hopefully all will have followed a plan to get them to the same baseline. Without this you have fitness levels all over the place and nothing to work with when real pre-season starts.

captain5 Posted on 25/05/2010 14:19
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I think that it may or not be a good idea, but I don't think it's half baked.

The players have had three weeks off since the last game, so it's not as though they're being thrown straight in after the end of a long season, especially when so few have played a large number of games.

We have tightened up in the closing periods of games, despite sas' best attempts to bring in goals late in the first half in the equation *sigh* and the goals we do concede are less likely to be key goals.

The better teams do score more goals in the latter periods of games. They tend to be full of winners who do anything to win, mentally and physically tough specimens.

Our problem was that under Gareth, even as a midtable side in the PL or higher up in this division, we let leads go whereas we struggled to get back into games when we went behind.

We were obviously overall talented enough as we were getting results over the whole of the season, but the facts and figures relating to coming from behind and losing leads that we had gained, speak for themselves.

I'd just like to pust sas' mind at rest. Even if we do get a lot of these things right in the next season, we fully expect and encourage you to whinge about how badly we'll do if we get promoted.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 14:31
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

interestingly..or maybe not

chelsea score 21 goals in the last 5 minutes of a game, manutd scored 17. if you include spurs and arsenal that 5 minute period is the highest number of goals in 5 minutes slots throughout the game. i think all but one(liverpool) of the top 7 teams are the same. basically score more goals in last 5 minutes. portsmouth concede more in last 5 minutes, hull conceded 17 goals in last 5 minutes, burnley conceded 11. all the highest 5 minute time points when they conceded goals

WBA scored 14 in last 5 minutes. boro concede more in the 2nd half but this carried on even when strachan arrived. maybe he thinks improiving fitness levels with stop this

so what conclusion does this show? the better teams score more at end of games and the worst teams concede more at end of games. how much of this is down to fitness,ability or concentration?

Ilikethenewbadge Posted on 25/05/2010 14:34
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

This training means nothing when you look at the squad, lack of central defenders, barely any midfielders at all.

At best the squad is dreadful, Strachan should be out getting players in not titing about in spain. This plus the world cup means we wont sign anyone for about 2 month

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 14:35
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

A lot of it is down to fitness, concentration and willpower sas.

Concentration goes when you're knackered.

We're operating on a low-budget so if Strachan can get us supremely fit and able to last a full 90 minutes then we should concede less late goals, and maybe even pop in a couple ourselves.

The better teams have better players, that's why Strachan is using all of his available options on the training field.

Cooper671 Posted on 25/05/2010 14:37
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

We let leads slip under gareth which has continued under strachan. Since gareth left we lead 8 games in the 2 nd half of whichwe won none. 7 draws and 1 defeat. It might have been 9 but I've tried to forget the nightmare of last season

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 14:38
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

whats that quote from Boksic again[;)]

Adi_Dem Posted on 25/05/2010 14:39
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Sas, it will be a combination of all those factors. On that basis, the easiest one to improve is fitness hence the reason that it is a good idea to get them as fit as possible.

SouthStandSY Posted on 25/05/2010 14:39
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

We're about to find out Sas, seeing if fitness can paper over a few cracks/make a silk purse out of a sows ear etc, the cupboard is bare due to our financial situation & we're trying to make nothing much go a long way - if it only that had been explained to me i'd have been able to understand it better, guess we'll see how it turns out......

Smog_Dog_Millionaire Posted on 25/05/2010 14:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

i spoke to me brother earlier today and hes totally knackered

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 25/05/2010 14:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

'obviously strachan is underpressure to make an impact in the new season. he failed last season'

Regardless of anything Gibson fed the numpties, anyone expecting Strachan to succeed last year hasn't got a clue about the game.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 14:44
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

a few of us were thinking about this the other day.. good players have a lot of up and down games but have moments where their concentration goes. Top class players can sustain that high level across a game and over a season with only 1 or 2 moments of lack of concentration. It's something in them that means they can play and concentrate for the full 90 minutes. but like someone is a born leader on the pitch. Lesser players tend to lose concentration around half time,full time or jsut after goals. isnt this the red zones that previous coaching staff at boro identified?

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 15:07
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"so what conclusion does this show? the better teams score more at end of games and the worst teams concede more at end of games. how much of this is down to fitness,ability or concentration?"
Well it isn't down to being more skilful because they don't leave the pitch more skilful than they walked on!

Clearly you can only show your ability when you have the energy. See Rooney last night a complete passenger for his last 20 mins because he was knackered.

Concentration - your concentration and judgement are the first things to go when you are near exhaustion.

Fitness is very important, and WGS said wihtin the first week that he wasn't happy with fitness levels. You can't really work hard on fitness during the season because you need the recovery time between games. That is why this week is important.

In the last 10 mins:

Southgate/Cooper
15 games
4 scored
8 conceded

Since Strachan arrived -
33 games
6 scored
5 conceded

Clearly Strachan has improved the fitness levels already. 33 games under Southgate would be 8/9 goal defeciept in the last 10 mins. Instead we had a 1 goal advantage.

The conceeded column tells you all you need to know, the majority of our team were flat on our feet under Southgate. Theonly reason we scored so many was Southgate had Adam Johnson available for every game and Strachan only had him for 1/3rd of his games.

mikehunt Posted on 25/05/2010 15:14
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Boromart
I didn't say Blackpool have better players, I said they are no good but we are no better.
Holloway got more out of his lads than we got out of ours. Fitness, organisation, motivation ,belief.
We need to be fitter and more committed, but we desperately need more quality and ability.
Those who think the Aliadiere's and Pogatetz's and Hoyte's and Arca's are better than their league need a shake.

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 15:22
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"We need to be fitter and more committed, but we desperately need more quality and ability."
Absolutely

"Those who think the Aliadiere's and Pogatetz's and Hoyte's and Arca's are better than their league need a shake." - Pogatetz would walk straight into Blackpool's team and most teams in this division. But it's a mute point as he didn't really play many games for us last season. In fact none of those players were really regulars.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 15:33
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

A mute point?

Is that a point made through the medium of silence?

Boromart Posted on 25/05/2010 15:37
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

It's been a long day in front of the screen, I'm tired, that's my excuse anyway. MOOT point.

TurnbullsCans Posted on 25/05/2010 15:38
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

A mute point is the means by which a non-speaking child shows his carer which sweets he wants.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/05/2010 15:50
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

creativity and attacking blackpool were far better. defensively i think we were better.
but now we have lost 3 centre backs we need 2 centrebacks. but our promotion relies on what sort of creative players we bring in plus another striker. what i noticed with the top 6 treams is they are far more mobile and creative in the oppositions half

HelmutSchmutz Posted on 25/05/2010 16:02
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I agree with the last post sasboro, I don't think anyone would argue with it. However, if you can get the fitness levels up by say 5% it's worth a few points. Also I don't agree with it having a negative affect on players morale. It's only a week doing what after all they are paid to do. It's in a nice place and then they get 3 - 4 weeks off.

junouk Posted on 25/05/2010 16:05
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I think its good the Strachan is looking to get the players fit after having three years off with southgate.

As soon as he took over he sent the players on a what he called a light run. It was then reported the Yeates ended up doing a sunday morning pizza on the training ground he was that unfit. SOld as soon as he could from then.

He could not do anything with the players as they were playing two games a week so between matches didnt really train let alone work on staminer and fitness.

He made a statement at the end of the season about spending the time between now and August on just getting them fitter and fitter.

He was also one of the first professionals to insist on going to bed after a training session to let his body recover. At Man United he would train until 1 then go to bed until 6. He did this with the celtic players also leading them to winning the title and getting them through to the champions league proper.

Dont knock him until you see what effect it has on everybody at the start of the season.

I cant wait...

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 25/05/2010 16:08
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

junouk[^]

backofthenet Posted on 25/05/2010 16:11
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Id rather trust somebody like Gordon Strachan who deals with the players day in day out than some nobody called sasboro on a message board.

Wheater_Walks_On_Water Posted on 25/05/2010 23:23
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

He is doing it to weed out the men from the boys, anyone who can't handle it will be shown the door.

Shaun71 Posted on 25/05/2010 23:30
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Theyve been training with The Royal Marines today. One things for sure, we'll have a fit side next season!

otto62 Posted on 26/05/2010 07:00
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Yep, they'll either be super fit ... or continually knacked and on the treatment table from overuse injuries.

UgoAfro Posted on 26/05/2010 09:29
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"or continually knacked and on the treatment table from overuse injuries"

As I see it we've nothing to lose then as most the squad was on the treatment table for the whole of last year.

feedthetunc Posted on 26/05/2010 09:41
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I hope the week of training is something similar to the one in "remember the titans"...........

i can see wee strachan now .....

"A water break? Water is for cowards. Water makes you weak. Water is for washing blood off that uniform and you don't get no blood on my uniform, boy you must be outside yo mind! We are going to up-downs, until Arca is no longer tired, and thirsty."

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 09:45
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D][:D][:D][:D][^][^][^][^]

HelmutSchmutz Posted on 26/05/2010 09:51
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D] Royal Marines training, nice.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 26/05/2010 09:52
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I wonder if the Royal Marines are always having to play an under-strength side in wars with all their players picking up little niggles?

gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 09:54
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Just remember lads, when debating anything Boro with sas, his starting position is always 'WE'RE DOOMED!'.

You can literally spend hours trying to get him as far as 'We might just not be doomed - yet'. But most of the time, you don't even get that far.




sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:14
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

" Just remember lads, when debating anything Boro with sas, his starting position is always 'WE'RE DOOMED!'. "

....mmmmm uefa cup finalist to mid table championship team in 4 years..selling off our best players to pay 85m debts..

as for this season we arnt doomed just that the current team isnt good enough to get us promoted no matter how fit strachan thinks he can get the team. give strachan until october then get rid if things havent improved by then. 12 months is enough time to see some improvement in results


we went through this sort of thread last summer with southgate. some people praising him and saying he wil get it right...etc they are now doign the same with strachan and admit southgate was rubbish

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 10:18
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Yes sas, the problem is that you were saying the same thing under McClaren. The cup win was papering over the cracks and the league was more important and then the 7th placed finish doesn't get us a trophy and then the UEFA Cup Final didn't hide a poor league campaign and on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:20
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

i said with mcclaren he was excellent cup manager and underachieved in the league with the best ever squad with the highest wage bill. we had a better squad than bolton who had more top 7 finishes than us.

then when southgate took over everyone said he needed 2-3 seasons to build a team because mcclaren left an old team

as for strachan, this boot camp is just a way to try to impress lamb/gibson after he underachieved last season

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 10:21
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

That's not what you said at the time sas. Don't worry though, I'm only winding you up.

gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 10:22
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[:D] Hur, hur, you're funny.

You talk like you're the only person in the world who realises the squad isn't strong enough. Do you feel like you need to find Gordon and inform him?

What we going to do if nobody tells him, and he spends the next two months sticking Luke Williams' head down a toilet in a marine base in Kuala Lumpa?


gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 10:25
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I asked you this yesterday sas, and you didn't answer.

Do you HONESTLY think that Strachan actually believes this current trip is of no benefit to the team whatsoever?

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:30
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"Do you HONESTLY think that Strachan actually believes this current trip is of no benefit to the team whatsoever? "

sorry i didnt read eveything as i was out last night and jsut logged on now.

Deep down he will know it is of no benefit because the season is still over 2 months away and preseason is designed to get all players back up to fitness. if it was of benefit why do no other clubs do it? It is just making noise to impress the boss.

what will make the difference is signing 4-5 decent players. as i've said before you can have the fittest ever squad but it wont make them better at shooting,passing,more creative,better freekicks. might make them run a half marathon a few minutes quicker though

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 26/05/2010 10:32
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

That's absolute XXXXXX Sas.

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:34
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

so what do you think pre season is there for?

and do oyu think GON is going to pass the ball better, score more goals just because he is a little bit fitter?

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 10:35
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

So deep down he is thinkg this is a complete waste of my time but I'll do it anyway?

Really?

Humpty Posted on 26/05/2010 10:38
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"you can have the fittest ever squad but it wont make them better at shooting,passing,more creative,better freekicks. might make them run a half marathon a few minutes quicker though"

have you heard of fatigue and the effect it has on performance Sas? You're a troll on here half the time, which is a shame because you seem to have some semblence of football knowledge about you.

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 10:39
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Fitness will allow them to make the most of their ability for longer. That's the point.

gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 10:40
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Unbelievable, isn't it?

A highly experienced manager, who has been in the game for years, and was highly decorated as a player, has spent thousands of pounds of our limited budget on an oversees training trip when really, in his head, he's thinking 'I've done all this for nowt - it's just show'

I know you love your negative slant sas, but really, you've surpassed yourself this time.


sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:40
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

fatigue, not for 90 minutes. maybe in extra time.

like i keep saying just because they are that little bit fitter do you really think it wil lmake a player more skillfull, better shooter,better passer? will it improve their technique and ball skills?

gravyboat, he is doing it for himself to impress lamb/gibson. why do you think no other teams are doing it? if it was of benefit they all would be doign it i am sure.

what is the point of preseason?

TurnbullsCans Posted on 26/05/2010 10:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

One question I would ask is why Spain? Why couldn't this training camp have been held at Rockcliffe?

Is La Manga at altitude?

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:44
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

nicer weather i suppose. does strachan play golf?

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 26/05/2010 10:45
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

It's not just about fitness either though. He gets to spend a week with the current squad. He'll get to know what they're like personally as well as professionally. He'll develop a clearer understanding of who he he wants to work with.

gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 10:46
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Perhaps, just perhaps, when considering our terrible record over the last 4 years of conceding late goals and failing to get back into games when going behind, we aren't as fit as other teams?

gravyboat Posted on 26/05/2010 10:48
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Chris, I've already attempted to point out it will be about more than fitness, and will also be about determining who is up for the fight, who really wants it.

It falls on deaf ears, because sas has already decided its a waste of time.

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 10:57
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

can the army teach the players how to play football?

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 10:58
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

It's in Spain so that they can be together as a group, it's hotter so it's harder work and the facilities are first class.

Anyone that suggests fitness doesn't improve a player's performance is just wrong, put simply.

manhead Posted on 26/05/2010 10:59
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Missing the point here. Fitness is one of the reasons they are going. The other main reasons are to test the players too see if they have what it takes to play 2 or 3 times a week in the championship (those that can't hack it will be off). Another reason is to take the team to a new enviornment, build some team morale, bit of craic together etc. I used to go on training trips away when i was boxing and you would be suprised about t he level of camorardary (sp) that builds up in a team when you are all being beasted together.

Excellent idea by WGS, if players are too soft to handle a week of training in La Manga then what hope to they have of getting XXXXXXted by a 6ft centre half away at Donny next season?

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 26/05/2010 11:07
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Strachan's Band Of Brothers.

Anthony Vickers will be using that headline next week for the big picture with images of the squad flying over big nets and crawling under barbed wire...

junouk Posted on 26/05/2010 11:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I beleive fitter players are better players yes.

The fitter you are the better your levels of concentration and ability to get in to the easier positions.

Full backs who are fit enough to get past the winger and give a second option. Bonus.

Instead of making a 50-50 tackle you get there ahead of the man and put the tackle in your favour.

Strikers still making the runs at the end of the game in the vain hope the pass will arrive.

Centre halves been able to push up the field and leave the gap between them and the goal keeper knowing they have the legs to get back with a long ball over the top.

Movement off the ball and not stood around blowing out of your @rse catching your breath.

Fittness linked with ability and team work will get us out of this league.

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 12:51
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

What other explanation is there for conceding late goals other than fitness? I don't think there really is one to be honest.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 26/05/2010 13:07
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

There is one - the players were shyte[^]

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 13:53
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

So if they were shyte how did they always manage to get leads in games etc? They just happened to concede towards the end all of the time?

his_dudeness Posted on 26/05/2010 13:54
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

[^]fantastic, the lads are training hard etc, i can't wait to buy a season ticket purely on that basis, the fact when strachan came in last season and 'beasted' the lads had no efect whatsoever on results is immaterial, the most important thing next season is to make sure the players get flogged, results and goals etc must come second

welcome to the strachan revolution

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 13:55
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"What other explanation is there for conceding late goals other than fitness? I don't think there really is one to be honest. "

if you look at chelsea and manutds goals distributions. chelsea scored about 21 goals in the last 5 minutes of games and manutd 17. most of the top 7 teams scored lots of late goals. its probably down to havign the best players. teams near the bottom tend to concede more goals in last 5 minutes of games

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 13:59
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Probably because they are tired from having so little possession [^]

his_dudeness Posted on 26/05/2010 14:33
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

boros complete lack of goals in the first half of games last season totally puts to bed the fact they were unfit, especially as they scored more in the second half of games


as usual, a little research proves all the gormless theories as utter claptrap

boksic Posted on 26/05/2010 14:39
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Camorardary? He was rubbish at Bradford and Everton so I doubt he will do anything for us plus he is probably knocking on a bit now. Still as he is at a scottish club you are probably right to indentify him as a Strachan target. [|)]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 26/05/2010 14:41
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"Deep down he will know it is of no benefit"

Come on sas, surely you don't really believe that?

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 14:47
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

"boros complete lack of goals in the first half of games last season totally puts to bed the fact they were unfit, especially as they scored more in the second half of games


as usual, a little research proves all the gormless theories as utter claptrap"

[:O]

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 15:24
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Dude, as usual you show yourself up. Two points:

1. No-one on this thread or any other has argued that fitness is a substitute for ability, results or anything else of that nature.

2. A lack of fitness, by definition only ever show up in the latter part of games therefore it is utterly irrelevant as to whether we scored goals or not in the first half - that's not when it cill count.

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 15:43
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Well according to soccerway our stats were

First Half: F 29 A 16
Second Half F 29 A 34

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 15:48
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

I think that tells it's own story Chappy.

Chappy112 Posted on 26/05/2010 15:49
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Nothing to do with fitness though that's just when we happen to concede them [^][:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 26/05/2010 16:08
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Just checked - we were third in the first half table last season and sixteenth in the second half table!!

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 26/05/2010 16:15
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Two things strike me about those stats:

1) We lacked experience. Strachan went about bringing in McManus, Killen, Robson and McDonald to correct this.

2) We weren't fit enough. Strachan went about changing the training/fitness regime and brought in two new coaches. He also organised an extensive training camp in La Manga.

On both fronts, Strachan comes out pretty well. You can't ignore the things he has started to do to make us a better team.

Roll on August.

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 16:20
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

its just a shame results havent improved

newyddion Posted on 26/05/2010 16:21
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

the season is over [rle]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 26/05/2010 16:21
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Its a big project sas, you just need to be patient mate[^]

sasboro1 Posted on 26/05/2010 16:22
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

he needs 2-3 seasons to change it like we all said with southgate[;)]

HelmutSchmutz Posted on 26/05/2010 18:20
The lads are getting beasted in La Manga

Nah he needs to get 4 - 5 players in this summer. The fitness thing'll help though.