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HolgateCorner Posted on 19/05/2010 23:02
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Definitely shows how barking mad the Lib Dems are.

Is this what the good voters of Redcar and Cleveland voted for?

Most people will think this sends out the wrong message to a society which is already out of control in some areas.

Clegg certainly knows how to wind his Tory partners up, doesn't he?

subbuteo_171 Posted on 19/05/2010 23:06
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Ban unmarked police cars. [^]

byrno Posted on 19/05/2010 23:08
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Democracy = power to the people. Isn't this what democracy is all about?

Better the people of this land have a say rather than decisions being made by some bloke in a suit who is detached from everyday life.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 19/05/2010 23:13
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Its about time we were asked.

They work for us, not the other way round.

HolgateCorner Posted on 19/05/2010 23:13
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

you won't say that if the streets become even more unsafe, the BMW drivers even more stupid in their little 3 series diesels and your home is burgled regularly.

And I won't mention drugs.

It sends the wrong message out in my view.

Doink Posted on 19/05/2010 23:14
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

More unmarked police cars [^]

HolgateCorner Posted on 19/05/2010 23:16
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

quite right doink, and more cctv cameras, only the guilty are worried about laws and being watched.

block_4_Eastender Posted on 19/05/2010 23:17
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

& unmarked police helicopters in whisper mode[^]

woodymfc Posted on 19/05/2010 23:17
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Bring back public floggings [^]

HolgateCorner Posted on 19/05/2010 23:20
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

well, there was a lot to be said for drowning suspected witches.

Nobody stepped out of line in those days.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 19/05/2010 23:22
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"you won't say that if the streets become even more unsafe, the BMW drivers even more stupid in their little 3 series diesels and your home is burgled regularly.

And I won't mention drugs.

It sends the wrong message out in my view."

Do you really think those are the types of laws that'll be reviewed?

Its more the 'can't take photographs in public places' laws, the abuse of anti terror legislation and the like.

Most people know where the sensible line is, Labours autocratic line over the last 13 years has eroded civil liberties to where someone like me (who used to work for them) couldn't bring myself to vote for them.

woodymfc Posted on 19/05/2010 23:23
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Lots of witches around these days, how about putting stocks back on the village greens, town centres to deal with these evil bitches and other offenders [^]

subbuteo_171 Posted on 19/05/2010 23:25
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Why not go the full hog, and have implants that can track your every movement?

That way we can completely eradicate crime.

I bet Doink and HC would love that eh?

HolgateCorner Posted on 19/05/2010 23:29
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

it would certainly sort out male strippers subbuteo.

I know what you Liberal thinkers are getting at above but it sends out the wrong message in my view to the lawless element in society.

Plus its contradictory, a strike was stopped the other day because of some spoilt ballot papers. Only a nutter like Clegg could square that circle.

subbuteo_171 Posted on 19/05/2010 23:34
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

There are more significant problems we need to resolve in our society before we catch motorists doing 80 on the motorway.

Put more rozzers on the beat, and on patrol - the likelihood of seeing coppers in a car every 10 miles is more likely to have an impact than unmarked cars.

Surely it's about prevention? Unmarked cars don't fit that criteria.

Smoggy_in_Wilts Posted on 19/05/2010 23:35
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Boro supporters don't need to pay tax[^][^][^]

woodymfc Posted on 19/05/2010 23:43
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Fact is lots of us don't [:D]

Smoggy_in_Wilts Posted on 19/05/2010 23:51
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Me included. I dream of the day that I can pay tax again.

woodymfc Posted on 19/05/2010 23:52
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Me too, what do we have to do ?

degsyspesh Posted on 19/05/2010 23:52
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Great idea - about f'ing time.

Labour introduced pretty much one criminal offence for every day that they were in power.


Link: fk all better to do

Doink Posted on 20/05/2010 00:43
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"Why not go the full hog, and have implants that can track your every movement?

That way we can completely eradicate crime.

I bet Doink and HC would love that eh?"

Good guess Subbuteo! Without a hint of Irony I would happily agree to have everyone implanted!

Downside - The state would know where you are all the time. Luckily for you they couldn't abuse that priviledge thanks to the Human Rights Act which I'm sure you're such a fan of (article 8 of the ECHR if you want to look it up).

Upside - Virtually every crime would get solved, and therefore attempted crime would fall dramatically!

If it was cheap and easy to do I would be all for it! What have YOU got to hide? [;)]

TheSmogMonster Posted on 20/05/2010 00:57
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"If it was cheap and easy to do I would be all for it! What have YOU got to hide?"

The question is what have I done wrong that justifies an infringement of my freedoms?

You'd be punishing tens of millions of innocent people.

Furthermore, as with the abuse of anti terror legislation, whose to say this information won't be misused?

I think you're kidding yourself.

Not_Smog Posted on 20/05/2010 01:11
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

HolgateCorner is Aldolf Hitler and i claim my five pounds!

[^]

MADMICK Posted on 20/05/2010 02:06
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

The Laws of Gravity...I Wanna Fly, Man[^]

sixtyniner69 Posted on 20/05/2010 06:35
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

asking the public is a bit daft

but ask law students to produce lists of the top 100 stupid laws is a better idea, every term , then look at scrapping the top 50, bearing in mind that they are still snot gobbling students and might put in some sensible laws in the list.

there are literaly thousands of laws written down that are an excuse for corruption or over extended legal processes. the fox hunting law, the prostitution law to name two.


TheBoy007 Posted on 20/05/2010 07:53
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Ban the Tory party?? I'm sure we could get 51% to vote for that[ref]

borobadge Posted on 20/05/2010 07:57
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

an utter load of non-sense off clegg..

he abbrogating(sp) his own responsibility , for starters...

sixtyniner69 Posted on 20/05/2010 08:04
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

however bad it is ( and its the asking the public bit thats bad )

it is nowhere near as bad for redcar and cleveland than NULABS idea of closing TCP and sabotaging the world cup bid mr tony blairs pal lord treason

TheBoy007 Posted on 20/05/2010 08:13
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"NULABS idea of closing TCP"

Funny that i thought Tata owned Corus. I didn't know "Nulab" had taken it over.

Doink Posted on 20/05/2010 10:26
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"The question is what have I done wrong that justifies an infringement of my freedoms?"

How exactly would it 'infringe your freedoms' if it was only used to catch you if you commit a crime? If you're a law-abiding citizen it wouldn't change your life one bit.


"Furthermore, as with the abuse of anti terror legislation, whose to say this information won't be misused?"

a) how has anti-terror legislation been misused exactly? (no tabloid answer please)

b) Regular referendums would make it almost impossible to get away with mis-using it.

c) Even if it were occasionally misused (and I mean very rarely) - Are you telling me you wouldn't substitute taking rape, murder and peadophilia down to almost 0% just because the odd person has their privacy infringed?

Lefty Posted on 20/05/2010 11:44
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

There are numerous examples of the anti-terror laws being used to curtail freedom of speech. Just google it.

It is a sad fact of life that people will take advantage of whatever they can to make their lives, or their jobs, easier.

Doink, do you have curtains or blinds up in your house?

Garyallcock74 Posted on 20/05/2010 18:06
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

absoloute tosh. will never happen. Joe Public wouldn't even knowe any laws

Doink Posted on 20/05/2010 18:13
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Sorry didn't see this. Curtains mate, why?

Just because 'mis-use' is reported doesn't mean it happened. The daily mail is the shining example of this but it happens to an extend by many news networks.

By the way Freedom of speech isn't an absolute right, it's qualified. That means you have a general right to freedom of speech but this can be curtailed by the state if they genuinely beleive it's necessary.

swordtrombonefish Posted on 20/05/2010 18:29
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

You mean ask the public as opposed to asking or being told by big business what the laws should be?

See DEBILL

TheSmogMonster Posted on 20/05/2010 18:47
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Doink, I'm only answering these because I hope your playing devils advocate.

"How exactly would it 'infringe your freedoms' if it was only used to catch you if you commit a crime? If you're a law-abiding citizen it wouldn't change your life one bit."

The fact that you don't understand that this is an infringement of your freedoms in itself is frightening, clearly you don't understand what freedom is. The right to privacy for example is a freedom.

"a) how has anti-terror legislation been misused exactly? (no tabloid answer please)"

I've already answered your question on how the terror laws have been abused in the case of taking photographs in public places.

A very real answer which some photographers on here have fell foul of and even the (last) governments own antiterrorism advisor believes is wrong.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6715886/Police-misusing-anti-terrorism-powers-to-stop-tourists-taking-photos.html

Further to that many protesters (whether you agree with their motives or not) have been arrested under terror legislation.

There's also been great concern about councils using RIPA to investigate peoples email and telephone records for minor offences.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article4036231.ece

"b) Regular referendums would make it almost impossible to get away with mis-using it."

How?

"c) Even if it were occasionally misused (and I mean very rarely) - Are you telling me you wouldn't substitute taking rape, murder and peadophilia down to almost 0% just because the odd person has their privacy infringed?"

It won't solve every crime, you're living in la la land, and it wouldn't be the odd person , it'd infringe on everyone.

Now with your chip in everyone, ask yourself what'd happen if a BNP government got in. Nick Griffin does a search of these chips by skintone (if you have nothing to hide I'm sure this'll be on there) and they'll abuse the power anyway they can.

Now, further to that, this kind of thing is never 100% accurate and you'll have repeated miscarriages of justice through database errors, insecure systems and police over reliance on systems over police work, making the system open to abuse.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html

Plus now you have a government with all your details, all your life on file... you know they'll sell that information.

In short, its a stupid, stupid idea.

Doink Posted on 20/05/2010 19:08
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

TheSmogMonster, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because I can't be bothered to address all the points you've raised, but I'm not playing devils advocate. I agree it's not a perfect system it was just an off-hand remark made above which I think with some significant thought would significantly benefit society.

While the BNP would never get into government, off the top of my head who says the goverment would manage this system? maybe some independent committee made up partly of parliamentary reps (from all parties) and partly private individuals to ensure it's only used for the agreed purposes etc.

On the freedoms issue, all we are disputing is the definition of 'a freedom' you are (understandably) relaying the technical definition - i.e. it's a concept that is infringed the minute you decide on any system like this.

I'm using a more pragmatic definition - if it doesn't restrict my life in any way (which this wouldn't) I don't feel like my 'freedom' have been infringed.

But lets just leave it because I was merely responding above that indeed I would happliy have my every move tracked if it severly reduced crime, but it's turned into a debate about how such a system would work!

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 20/05/2010 19:23
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

anti-terrorism laws are abused all the time. From councils checking to see if someone is lying to get into a school catchment area to freezing assets in Icelandic banks. From lowly council workers to the very top of government.
They need to be sorted out now. Its pretty much an insult to all those who have died in various atrocities, and it weakens the case of those who seek to bring in proper much needed laws to safeguard the populance.
In the past Ive been very sceptical about those who think that the government seeks to take advantage of terrorism to conrol the populance. I have changed my views.
Anti-terrorism laws are needed. The abuse of them just weakens the case.

junkyard_angel Posted on 20/05/2010 19:26
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Nothing wrong with a bit of diologue with the public. It may help rid us of the politics of fear that we have now, with politicians goading each other to be 'tough' on this and 'tough' on that, which only leads to kneejerk policies.

They may be surprised by our views, and dare to talk about things openly, that they hereto regarded as anathema but that they themselves believe privately.


TheSmogMonster Posted on 20/05/2010 19:26
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

"TheSmogMonster, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because I can't be bothered to address all the points you've raised, but I'm not playing devils advocate."

You cant be bothered to answer my questions but then continued to type.

"I agree it's not a perfect system it was just an off-hand remark made above which I think with some significant thought would significantly benefit society."

Except it wouldn't as I've shown.

"While the BNP would never get into government, off the top of my head who says the goverment would manage this system? maybe some independent committee made up partly of parliamentary reps (from all parties) and partly private individuals to ensure it's only used for the agreed purposes etc."

Who would set up this system... thats right the government and they'd have ultimate control.

"On the freedoms issue, all we are disputing is the definition of 'a freedom' you are (understandably) relaying the technical definition - i.e. it's a concept that is infringed the minute you decide on any system like this.

I'm using a more pragmatic definition - if it doesn't restrict my life in any way (which this wouldn't) I don't feel like my 'freedom' have been infringed."

Twisting the definition of words to suit your argument is a joke surely?

"But lets just leave it because I was merely responding above that indeed I would happliy have my every move tracked if it severly reduced crime, but it's turned into a debate about how such a system would work!"

If we have to track you to reduce crime then maybe you should just hand yourself in now.

Us law abiding folk will do without your mumbo jumbo thanks.

Doink Posted on 20/05/2010 19:57
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

Shame, I thought we were having a mature debate where we appreciated each others viewpoints. Oh well [rle]

HolgateCorner Posted on 20/05/2010 22:54
Asking the public what laws they want rid of...

I've not seen anything posted above which makes me think this idea is anything other than a ridiculous Liberal idea thought up over a bottle of expensive wine in Clegg's parents chateau in rance.

The vast majority of the population don't understand law, how it works, what it is based on, the reasons it exists the way it does.

How is Clegg going to arrive at a consensus for the laws people want rid of? Is he going to put it to a referendum at which we will have a tick list of laws we are not happy with? And without people being properly informed with regard to the potential consequences of getting rid of such laws?

Or will it be used as an excuse to get rid of laws that Clegg disagrees with? On the basis that 'it is what our research shows' the public would like?

I think most people are too busy getting on with their lives to go around thinking, golly me, that law is a bit of a nuisance isn't it? and I wish the new coalition would get rid of that law..etc.

In fact the more I think about it the more boll***s the whole big idea is.