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HolgateCorner Posted on 08/05/2010 12:36
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I'm sick of hearing this on the telly from the Tory media scum.

Our system is first past the post, and they failed to get anywhere near it.

Counting seats in this situation is like counting votes, if you haven't got enough seats to be a majority government, you haven't won the election, it is as simple as that.

Any party that needs to rely on another party to govern the country is in joint leadership, no way have the Tories won this election.

Holgateoldskool Posted on 08/05/2010 12:39
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

So the Labour supporters spin is just because you've the most seats doesn't make you the winner.....

You couldn't make it up..........

HolgateCorner Posted on 08/05/2010 12:41
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

under our system you have to have a certain number of seats otherwise you need other parties to cooperate with you.

It's not a hard thing to grasp, just have a think about it for a few seconds...

sixtyniner69 Posted on 08/05/2010 12:43
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

realistically the LIB-DEMS have won at this moment exactly what they have wanted for years

AND THEY ARE NOT READY [cr][cr][cr]

PR is within reach and it might be thrown away for a fleeting chance at power with a government that is likely to fail, whichever party they choose they could be tainted for the failure the next 30yrs[xx(]

myboro Posted on 08/05/2010 12:45
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"just because you've the most seats doesn't make you the winner"

It doesn't it just means you have the most seats the Biggest minority in effect. House of commons means a majority is needed to get a queens speech approved and a budget through

Without those you cannot govern


Holgateoldskool Posted on 08/05/2010 12:45
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Try sticking to the Daily Mirror for your Labour love in........

Brown has virtually ruined the country and some of you want more????

Sea_Harrier Posted on 08/05/2010 12:45
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

There are a lot of bitter Labourites around. get over it, it's only a General Election.

Whatever the final result may be, and whoever holds the balance of power, we are all going to get caned by tax increases and public sector job losses. Joe Public is the only person who the government can call upon to right the wrongs.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 08/05/2010 12:47
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Spin it however you want, they got over 2 million more votes than the opposistion.

Whether it be a minority or a coalition, The Tories have earned the right to govern

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 08/05/2010 12:56
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

They should form a coalition with Brown. Demand PR referendum as the crux of the deal.

They get PR.
People are outraged because Brown yet again is PM without the backing of the people or his peers.
Add on that the popularity of whoever attempts to sort out the deficit...

Next vote comes in, Conservatives and Lib-Dems take most seats.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 08/05/2010 12:57
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

but a LIB-dem agreement with either party would make an ever bigger right to rule[rle]

by many millions either way

i just hope it is an agreement [:P] and not an alliance [xx(]

bigrichardthe3rd Posted on 08/05/2010 12:58
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

only 20 seats short,,,,,,cameron piissseddd all over brown[smi]

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 08/05/2010 13:07
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

sixtyniner.

Labour would need to make deals with lots of minority parties, not just Lib-Dems.

Conservatives just need one deal.

Now lets say there have to be cuts. The main areas pointed to by cameron were Northern Island and the North East of england where the public spending is bloated.

Cuts to the public sector will happen under any party rule.

Now let's say Brown get's into bed with the NI parties (on condition that the public sector is secured), Scotland, Wales and Lib-Dems. The cuts are likely to land in the North-East.
Don't worry though, that surely wouldn't happen to a Labour stronghold.

Scrote Posted on 08/05/2010 13:15
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

this thread just sums up how little people actually understand about the stuff they are willing to pontificate on

our FPTP system is based on seats and it always (in living memory at least) has been

%age of the vote doesn't matter - which is why labour were able to govern in 97 with a lower overall %age of the vote than the tories have today

the tories weren't able to persuade enough people to vote for them in areas where it would have affected their seats total and that is why they have no mandate to govern

it's a hung parliament and no amount of squealing about 'popular vote' can change that

everyone knew the rules going in - it might be worth a few of the more vociferous folk on here having a read of them before they look even more stupid than they do already...

Bukowski Posted on 08/05/2010 13:18
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I think it's far more likely that the Lib Dems will form a coalition with Labour. Labour are more likely to agree to electoral reform and are closer in their policies and ideology.

If Clegg agrees to form a coalition with the Tories but doesn't win at least a referendum on PR out of the deal, then he'll very likely lose the support of his party.

moxxey Posted on 08/05/2010 13:18
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"Our system is first past the post, and they failed to get anywhere near it."

There will be another election within 12 months, based on similar events through history.

What might happen is Brown will stand down, another leader will come forward for Labour, another election and some of those who moved to the Tories will move back to Labour.

Mind you though, there's still quite a bit of 'scum' about Labour than there are the Tories. You can't tell me that Mandelson is the kind of Labour spin doctor you admire? And don't tell me he's barely in the party - he's everywhere!

Bukowski Posted on 08/05/2010 13:24
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

The problem with Labour is they don't really have anybody who stands out as being leadership material.

Both Milibands are completely lacking in any charisma and I'd be surprised if they won back support.

Tristram Hunt might be an option in the long run but he's only just become an MP.

ThePrisoner Posted on 08/05/2010 13:28
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

The Tories have failed abysmally. Given the situation the government was in they should have got a 50 majority easily but their almost total lack of policies has cost them. There will be a fudged coalition of some sort then another election within a year [^]

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 08/05/2010 13:29
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

What about Darling? He seems like a nice chap.

Bukowski Posted on 08/05/2010 13:46
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I blame Cameron for the Tories showing.

He's a ditherer and seems undecided on just what sort of Tory he wants to be.

He spent too much time trying to pander to and chase the centrist Labour vote (when many people had already abandoned them) to the point that people now aren't really clear about what the Tories stand for anymore.

A David Davis or William Hague would have won that election quite comfortably.

Bukowski Posted on 08/05/2010 13:48
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I think Labour need to move away from picking Scottish leaders for a bit if they want to win back the English vote en masse.

Alan Johnson would probably be the best choice at the moment.

UKLL1981 Posted on 08/05/2010 13:49
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Tories didn't win but Labour comprehensively lost, the nation has told Brown and co to XXXXXX off and they are still trying to cling onto power like some African dictator.

If Labour and the Lib Dems do form a coalition it makes a mockery of democracy that the two losing parties can govern.

There will be outrage against Labour and a loss of respect for the Lib Dems.

How can a man who has 2m fewer votes and leads a party with 50 fewer seats run the country? it's undemocratic and untenable.

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/05/2010 13:50
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I think Cameron was aware that he'd have to appeal to the middle ground. I reckon the thinking was once he'd got in he roll out the Thatchrite policies.

bear66 Posted on 08/05/2010 13:50
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

No one won the election. And the one that eventually does 'win' will lose big time for at least a generation

Sea_Harrier Posted on 08/05/2010 13:54
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Bear is correct. The party that wins the balance of power will inherit a poisoned chalice. The draconian measures needed to turn the economy around will make the next government unelectable for years to come.

This general election will be a good one to lose, but who could ride another 5 years of Brown and his mismanagement?

Bukowski Posted on 08/05/2010 13:55
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I don't agree with that bear66.

People know what a mess the country is in financially and that difficult measures will need to be taken.

Muttley Posted on 08/05/2010 14:06
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

A deeply flawed and contradictory piece of analysis from Mr Bukowski!

"I blame Cameron for the Tories showing. He's a ditherer and seems undecided on just what sort of Tory he wants to be. He spent too much time trying to pander and chase the centrist Labour vote (when many people had already abandoned them) to the point that people now aren't really clear about what the Tories stand for anymore. A David Davis or William Hague would have won that election quite comfortably."

Firstly, one of the problems with the Tories is that they are a loose coalition of divided factions. Pro-euro v Anti-eurio. Centrist v Thatcherite. And in the background the puppet masters...

Which makes it very difficult for any leader to decide what sort of Tory to be! So "Dave" decided that it would be enough simply to be "not Labour" and up until six months ago it looked like it would be.

As for David Davis or William Hague walking it, I suspect that if the Tory Grandees believed that, they would have engineered it. They thought that Dave was their best bet.

Davis ran against Dave and lost, form would suggest he'd struggle on heavier going.

Oh, and didn't Mr. Hague get his arse handed to him by Blair, Anthony Charles Lynton?

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/05/2010 14:18
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Hague has no charisma. His voice is just one long drone. He may be more qualified and a better leader but the public just wouldn't, and didn't accept him.

junkyard_angel Posted on 08/05/2010 14:19
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Tories want to govern because they won the popular vote but are loath to consider intruducing a fairer electoral system that would reflect the popular vote.

onthemap Posted on 08/05/2010 14:32
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Just how desperate have Labour supporters become now that the country have woken up to the shambles they presided over.

Apparently the Conservatives have failed because given how bad the Labour Party performed they should have romped to a majority!!!!!!

What an absolutely pathetic argument. We XXXXXXed it all up and you can't be any good because you only got 2 million more votes.


MawTheMerrier Posted on 08/05/2010 14:34
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I do.

Poisoned chalice though, as the cuts required to repair our ecconomy, will make the Torries unlikely to win the next 'un.

joshie Posted on 08/05/2010 14:36
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

If they didnt who did 'win' it?

TheBoy007 Posted on 08/05/2010 14:37
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

draw

junkyard_angel Posted on 08/05/2010 14:40
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

onthemap: "Apparently the Conservatives have failed because given how bad the Labour Party performed they should have romped to a majority!!!!!!

What an absolutely pathetic argument. We XXXXXXed it all up and you can't be any good because you only got 2 million more votes."

Why exactly is that such a pathetic argument?
Cameron had an open goal and he scuffed it out for a goal kick. It was a great opportunity to win an outright majority and they never even reached the finishing line.

joshie Posted on 08/05/2010 14:55
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

By your reckonining a draw which would then mean each team has an equal chance of going on to form a government?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 08/05/2010 14:58
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Skewed logic there Angel.

Labour had a disaster, but if it makes you feel better to twist it, then be my guest.

Torries won the election.

redwurzel Posted on 08/05/2010 15:08
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I don't think there is a big difference between the Tories and Labour.

Cameron is not a thatcherite and the labour party is not socialist.

If there is a winner it has to be the party with the most seats in our system.

I want PR and always have - its definetely fairer.

bolifer Posted on 08/05/2010 15:16
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"just because you've the most seats doesn't make you the winner"

Oh,yes it does Holgate.
It's a bit similar to Boro scoring 3 goals to the oppositions 2 goals. Boro win. QED.

borobadge Posted on 08/05/2010 15:23
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

is brown still PM ?

who is in number 10 ?

is eton dave gonna give up trident ?

is eton dave gonna go with the euro ?

is eton dave going to give us PR ?

his selling his 'tory principles' and his not even through the front door...

neworder Posted on 08/05/2010 15:44
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?


"I don't think there is a big difference between the Tories and Labour.

Cameron is not a thatcherite and the labour party is not socialist.

If there is a winner it has to be the party with the most seats in our system.

I want PR and always have - its definetely fairer".

Fair point Red wurzel [^]

junkyard_angel Posted on 08/05/2010 15:53
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"Skewed logic there Angel.

Labour had a disaster, but if it makes you feel better to twist it, then be my guest."

I ain't twisting anything. True, Labour had a disaster.
Tories failed to capitalise; also true.

The elections are not like a football match where the team that scores the most, wins.
It is more like a race, where the first across the line wins. As yet, nobody has crossed the line.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 08/05/2010 15:56
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

well ok, a flawed win, but he will still be PM come Monday, so a result in my book.

junkyard_angel Posted on 08/05/2010 16:04
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

You see, it's you Tories who are twisting.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 08/05/2010 16:07
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

Cheek! I'm not a Tory! [smi]

br14 Posted on 08/05/2010 16:16
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"Tories failed to capitalise"

If you look at the stats, there are good reasons why the Tories failed to capitalise.

Labour has quietly manipulated the electoral system to give themselves quite the advantage.

Cameron will have to give Clegg what he wants, or face the prospect of an effective single party state. Such is the effect of Labours policies and manipulation of the system while in power.

junkyard_angel Posted on 08/05/2010 16:18
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

"Labour has quietly manipulated the electoral system to give themselves quite the advantage."


Seats won per 100,000 votes

* Conservative 2.8
* Labour 3.0
* Liberal Democrat 0.8

br14 Posted on 08/05/2010 17:19
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I did the "maths" yesterday.

The average size of a Tory constituency population wise is 18% larger than Labour.

Thats since the last set of boundary changes.

Lib-Dems is similar to Labour.

That's the advantage of being in power.

If you took that 18% and divided them up among other seats you'd have had a clear majority for the Tories.

Zelig2 Posted on 08/05/2010 17:26
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

The clue is in the name '1st past the post'. This implies that there is a post to get past & no single party got past it. Funny thing is the Tories are now trying to ignore the system they want to preserve [:P]

icarus1965 Posted on 08/05/2010 17:28
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

sounds like the left winger is in a pansh1t...

minority groups do not have hold of this country anymore...

HolgateCorner Posted on 08/05/2010 18:00
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

looking at some of the Tory biased posts on this thread it shows either they have no idea how our election system works or they are so desperate for power that they make the rules up as they go along.

The one about the football match and goals scored above would have been funny if it hadn't been so ridiculous.

I suggest some of you Tory boys get your heads around why in a parliament with 650 seats you need at least 326 to form a proper government which does not rely on help and deals with other parties who fought on a different agenda.

If you are still wondering, half of the seats comes to 325.

Nobody won this election.

br14 Posted on 08/05/2010 18:59
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

There are other countries with first past the post systems.

Generally the party with the most seats gets the chance to rule. Which I suppose is what is happening now in the UK despite the precedence rule.

The UKs systems is a bit of an oddity, but it was the first and has lasted for hundreds of years, so it can't be all bad.

Hercules Posted on 08/05/2010 19:24
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

It shows how evil the tories are considered by the British public when they are handed a chance like they have just had and still don't close the deal.

Seriously, the biggest recession in a generation, 'the worst PM ever' as an opponent, Rupert Murdoch, the expenses scandal, 3 times as many staff as labour, 3 times as much cash...etc.

well_hung_but_modest Posted on 08/05/2010 19:27
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

yep, so evil they got 2 million more votes than your lot.
Anyway, sheep shouldn't be allowed to vote.

petedreadnought Posted on 08/05/2010 19:28
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

FAIL!

well_hung_but_modest Posted on 08/05/2010 19:30
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

do you fancy me or something Pete? Seriously, your obsession is a little concerning. I'm worried about your mental state son.
Get some help.
Or failing that, get the lobotomy reversed.

Hercules Posted on 08/05/2010 19:33
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

I don't have a 'lot'. I've voted twice, neither for Labour or the Tories.

I just know a turd when I see one. And to be fair, they were all over during this election.

It's just some turds are bigger and more painful than the others.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 08/05/2010 19:33
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

IF they secure a change to PR, the real winners will be the Lib-Dems.

well_hung_but_modest Posted on 08/05/2010 19:35
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

'some turds are bigger and more painful than the others.'
I'll give you that.
One 'em keeps posting infantile one or two word responses and thinks he's being witty.
Goes by the name of PeteDickwad.
Do you know him by any chance?

Michael_Debeve Posted on 08/05/2010 23:09
Who seriously thinks the Tories have 'won' the election?

When the question was posed, who was pm? Ah so the Tories didn't win...