|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 09:48|
Do the British public and more to the point the parents of James Bulger deserve to know why he has been placed back in prison?
If my memory serves my correct, it was Venables who was classified as the really disturbed one of the two little evil swines. In fact, I'm sure the people treating him as a child, warned he could turn into a real monster when older.
So, as a civilised society, do we continue to protect his so called human rights?
Is he any different to Myra Hindley and Ian Brady now? One has died inside and the other surely will.
Venable will have cost the system millions of pounds and has ended up where he probably should have been kept anyway.
Personally, the nation should know what has happened.
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 09:50|
I don't understand why people need to know what his most recent crime was. What difference does it make?
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 09:55|
Also, it was Robert Thompson who was deemed the more "evil" of the two...
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 09:56|
The truth is that no-one really knows what he is really like other than the people who worked with him for years and all those stories about what workers thought when we was a kid are impossible to verify.
In fact, note how the some papers are reporting loads of details about what Venables has been up to. It's easy for them to do so because Venables cannot put the record straight, they can say he's been working as a pimp for years if they want - there's no way they can be held accountable for any lies. See also Huntley's ex-girlfriend. The papers printed all sorts of lies about her which she can't do a lot about due to the risk of her anonymity.
He could have been sent back for something you or I would only receive a slap on the wrist for.
|dave42 Posted on 05/03/2010 09:58|
he is over 18 now hang the t**t
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 09:59|
He's hardly a run of the mill criminal is he?
Back in 1993, what happened shocked the country and the rest of the world.
It's been a contentious issue ever since. However, I think most reasonable minded people could understand the need to rehabilitate them and then give them new identies.
That's at a cost of millions and both boys would have been given more opportunities in their early years than vast amounts of under-privilage kids, who happen not to be f*cking evil sods.
Like it or not, whatever he has done has reminded the nation of that day in 93.
We deserve to know the truth now.
|Away_win Posted on 05/03/2010 09:59|
just people being nosey XXXXXXs, i think most people actually want him to of done something awful.
|Bernie_was_right Posted on 05/03/2010 10:00|
Yesterdays mail said he`d been sent back after brawling with a workmate.
He`d also previously been cautioned for drug possession. Wonder if the coppers who cautioned him knew his real idetity?
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 10:00|
But why do we "deserve" it?
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:00|
"We deserve to know the truth now."
I just don't think it is any of my business, what has it got to do with me? Honest question.
|The_same_as_before Posted on 05/03/2010 10:04|
I prefer to live within a compastionate legal system rather than a hanging one.
But here is my but; the standard of living within the prison environment should be based on half the minimum DHSS weekly payment.
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 10:05|
Do you need the information to protect yourself? If not, is this anything but tabloid fuelled prurience?
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:06|
It's not like he's crime was one of many.
As I've previously mentioned, their crime truly shocked the country and sent emotions of millions of people through the roof.
We've all got an interest in Venables, as it's the tax payers money which has been used to develop him as a young man.
Everyone kicked off about the MP's and their expenses.
Is that none of your business either?
|The_same_as_before Posted on 05/03/2010 10:07|
They were 10 years old.
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 10:08|
Why do the British public think that because "taxpayer's money" is used, their opinion holds weight?
I don't use buses, but my tax pays for them....ban the buses!!!
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:09|
So, I guess you live in your own little bubble of existence, where outside influence doesn't concern you.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:10|
MPs live public lives in public offices with public money.
What one criminal gets up to is not really something that concerns me.
Try not not confuse the whole country being up in arms about it with the media being up in arms. It's not the same. No-one has said a dicky-bird in the past 9 years so I hardly think people are as bothered as you think they are. And they aren't, until the media latches onto this non-story.
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 10:10|
Why is this anything like the MPs expenses scandal?
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 10:12|
I DO think the plight of Jon Venables is outside my "little bubble of existence", yes. That's more or less my point.
|corabora Posted on 05/03/2010 10:13|
He's been sent back because he has been visiting Liverpool regularly,but the point that really struck me was that he's been supporting Everton. Hang him.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:13|
"What one criminal gets up to is not really something that concerns me."
Do you really classify what Venables did as just another criminal committing a crime?
You make it sound similar to a local scumbag stealing cars and such.
|The_same_as_before Posted on 05/03/2010 10:14|
Nero, he was 10.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:15|
No but it doesn't affect me.
You are the one 'demanding' to know stuff because you 'deserve' it. So what if he is found out to have punched a work colleague? How is that going to make me any safer at night? Face it, you are just being overly dramatic and hysterical.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:20|
I do realise he was ten, but giving the assistance and protection he has been afforded all his life, ending up back in prison anyway, could be considered a complete waste of time and effort.
Alan Johnson should just say what's happened.
The population has went about their daily lives for the past 17 years, but whenever there is a reminder of a chilling crime, people tend to stop and think about it again. There's a genuine concern to see how this man has grown up.
Can society really rehabilate and develop someone like that.
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 10:22|
What do you want doing with him? And what do you want this information about him for?
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:22|
Where exactly do I say I deserve to know the truth?
I'm in no way being hyterical about anything here. I'm looking at things in a objective light.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:24|
Well why are you demanding to know what happened? What difference would it make to you?
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 10:26|
'We deserve to know the truth now.'
I think that was where you said you deserve to know the truth.
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 10:26|
"We deserve to know the truth now" Nero,
5th March 2010
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:26|
Again, how exactly am I demanding to know what's happened?
I'm merely making an observation of does the nation deserve to know the truth?
We're a country of 60 million people, I'm sure there's a fair percentage of them wondering what has happened.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:27|
"Where exactly do I say I deserve to know the truth?"
--> "We deserve to know the truth now."
Don't tell us you are being objective, you can't even remember what you have said.
|BobbyG Posted on 05/03/2010 10:28|
You're backtracking quicker than Lord Backtrack of Backtrackington!
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:29|
"Again, how exactly am I demanding to know what's happened?"
->"Alan Johnson should just say what's happened."
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 10:31|
Should have been executed at the time. Lets execute him now instead.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:34|
Believe me, I'm just being objective.
I don't demand to know anything, but have genuine interest in what has happened. When I said we, it was meant as the nation.
In cases like this, I think it's best to be open with the public. Not doing so will encourage the tabloids to dig for stories and just make stuff up.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:37|
How can you be open with the public when you've invested so much in preserving someone's anonymity? There's a very real chance that the parole board will release him again - telling everyone what happened is just going mean they have to give him *another* new identity. Whether you like what happened or not on his release, this is the situation we are in.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:42|
I think it would be reassurring for some people if they realise the authorities have kept a close eye on him.
Say for example, he has got into an argument and hit someone. Bloody hell, that could happen to any of us.
If when the authories have heard of this, he has been hauled back to prison because of his unique case, then that shows that the system is working.
Recently, there have been numerous examples of the system failling and people getting hurt.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 10:48|
You don't need to know why to see they are keeping an eye on him. He has been hauled back so what's the problem?
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 11:00|
Listen, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm not budging and nor are you.
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 11:02|
This is worth a read, pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole thing:
|Manfriday Posted on 05/03/2010 11:06|
Nero, i dont need to know the truth so please stop demanding it as though you are a spokesman for 60 million people, ta :)
|Muttley Posted on 05/03/2010 11:11|
Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 09:59
"We deserve to know the truth now."
Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 10:34
"I don't demand to know anything"
Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 11:00
"I'm not budging"
|littlejimmy Posted on 05/03/2010 11:11|
Excellent piece, ooooo. Thanks for posting.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 11:13|
That is a decent read. I'm sure it reflects what many people think on this subject.
It does not entirely reflect what I think however.
|could_it_be Posted on 05/03/2010 11:41|
venables is clearly a very disturbed individual with the capacity to commit acts of unspeakable violence
his release and re-arrest is a reflection on our penal system and i would be interested to know what he has done because it might suggest that it was wrong to release him in the first place and therefore set a standard for the treatment of others like him
as a law abiding member of the pblic i would like to know what the nations nutters are getting up to on release from jail and if i am in danger as a result of the decisions made by parole boards and psychiatrists
not unreasonable, for all we know this fella could be living on teesside and as he's already kiled someone who knows what he is still capable of?
|sasboro1 Posted on 05/03/2010 11:43|
the media want to sell papers out of this so they will want to find out what went on and then if possible speak to others involved in anything. help to sell paper.
my opinion, the justice system has done it's job. he broke his conditions and is back behind bars. thats all that matters. dont think we really need to know any thing more. there maybe be innocent people involved and they deserve the right to remain anonymous
|Lurkalot Posted on 05/03/2010 12:24|
"To continue feeding indignation against a 10-year-old boy who glimpsed Hell, and who knew it, is at best unworthy, and at worst is itself a manifestation of wickedness." .... What a pile of shyyte!
When will we ever cease to make stupid excuses for these (and their like) little scrotes? Most other people on the planet know what is right and what is wrong, let alone what is so wicked that it's almost beyond description.
Remember, these kids planned what they did (they had tried and failed previously to commit this crime on another child). Every time Jamie Bulger cried for his mum on that walk to the railway line he was kicked and beaten, once they arrived then the 'serious' stuff started and the horror began. It was not a moment of madness...it was preplanned.
Let's stop pretending and 'nannying' these people. The fact that they were 10, or 11 or whatever doesn't matter a jot in my mind...THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND IT WAS THEIR OWN CHOICE TO BEHAVE IN THIS WAY.
People must be made accountable for their own actions, and the punishment must fit the crime.....unfortunately in this case it fell far short.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 13:02|
Lurkalot, Well said.
|littlejimmy Posted on 05/03/2010 13:04|
I'm impressed that people can write so eloquently with a pitchfork in one hand and a flaming torch in the other.
|toxic_bob Posted on 05/03/2010 13:14|
We aren't born with a fully formed moral compass - our sense of right and wrong is formed in childhood by our families and the society we grow up in. When 10-year-old kids murder a toddler, I'm not saying that they should shoulder no blame, but you have to ask questions about their families and social environments.
I'm the father of a 7-month old boy and what they did makes my blood run cold. But if the criminal justice system doesn't offer people like Venables and Thompson the possibility of rehabilitation - of redemption - then I don't think we can call ourselves a civilised country.
|maxi_levey Posted on 05/03/2010 13:19|
Chop the fcuking bollox of him..and fcuk all you do gooders.
|Lurkalot Posted on 05/03/2010 13:23|
bob: so at what point do we believe their "moral compass" to be fully formed...10? 15? 24? 38?
|toxic_bob Posted on 05/03/2010 13:28|
Dunno mate, I'm not a social worker
But if a baby gets brought up by wolves he ends up howling and biting people.
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 13:31|
Why do you have to ask that Lurkalot? The law sets the age of criminal responsibility.
|The_same_as_before Posted on 05/03/2010 13:34|
Maxi, I am always impressed by people of such eloquence.
Where does the ball chopping off start? driving at 32mph in a 30mph, having a drink level 1/2% above the law, stealing a packet of mints from Tesco, a 16yo having sex with a girl two days off 16, killing someone in a car accident, ......
|bororingo Posted on 05/03/2010 13:55|
To put a twist on this, how would people react if they found out that he had been living on Teesside (or wherever you live) and that you were friends or a colleague of his?
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 14:00|
bororingo, I'd say it was a testament to how rehabilitation *can* work because none of my friends or colleagues have exhibited any 'bad' behaviour that has given me any concerns.
|could_it_be Posted on 05/03/2010 14:03|
to put another twist on it what was your reaction at the time?
i can't believe so many people want to act like venables is some kind of victim and we're being too harsh on him
people on here bang on about chav's and this and that inconsequential misdemeanour but this venables is one seriously fuc ked up fella. he belongs behind bars
jamie bulgers family and the community this happened in would be speechless reading this thread i reckon
come down from your ivory towers and set forth your reasoning to jamie bulgers parents
liberal minded madness
|Towell Posted on 05/03/2010 14:04|
Surely if the taxpayer has spent Millions on rehabilitating someone then it wouldn't be prudent to throw it all away by effectively blowing his cover in prison.
|sasboro1 Posted on 05/03/2010 14:05|
but when someone comes out of prison after killing someone they dont go around with a tshirt saying they are a murderer.etc. so you dont know if you work or live near to a murderer anyway.
|Lurkalot Posted on 05/03/2010 14:08|
Specky: I was asking bob .... so at what point do we believe their "moral compass" to be fully formed.
I was not asking what the legal age for criminal responsibility was.
Two different things.
|HUMBERRED Posted on 05/03/2010 14:17|
They should never have been let out.It was a calculated deplorable act that they commited.Imagine if it was your baby son who they killed.
|Genghis_Khan Posted on 05/03/2010 14:22|
He should be re homed under supervision, he should rotate between Littlejimmy, speckyget and Muttley.
|HUMBERRED Posted on 05/03/2010 14:23|
|speckyget Posted on 05/03/2010 14:40|
Hurr capio. Hurr.
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 14:52|
They shouldnt have ever been released. This pi55 weak country with all the pi55 weak individuals and mentality almost make excuses for any heinous act to be committed.
They should have killed the evil XXXXXXs when they were convicted, but no, we couldn't even manage to keep them in jail for what should have been forever.
So it was 17 years ago? So what? He still frickin did what he did. He still has soaked pounds of innocent taxpayers money and is now allowed to live a life like any other normal person whilst the family of James Bulger will forever be tormented by his actions.
Death penalty should have been used back then
|petedreadnought Posted on 05/03/2010 14:57|
reckre, don't you get tired of posting the same angry rubbish over and over again?
This must be the third thread I've come across now where you just blabber on about how they should have been killed at 10-years old like a stuck record.
I think we get your message.
|Manfriday Posted on 05/03/2010 14:58|
Just a small point, jamie bulger never existed. His name was james and the only time he got called jamie was by the press after his death
|littlejimmy Posted on 05/03/2010 15:06|
This link explains how a similar case in Norway was treated completely differently.
As Will Self was saying on QT last night, there's a strange mentality in this country when it comes to this kind of thing. What is it driven by - fear? Do we see Thomson and Venables as somehow Super Evil because they were children and not adults? Some people just can't get past their natural, emotive response to it, but surely being able to see such cases dispassionately is what makes us civilised.
|Link: Norway v UK|
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 15:30|
Nope not bored in the slightest.
Have I mentioned lethal injection as a possible way of getting rid of the uselessXXXXXX?
|gravyboat Posted on 05/03/2010 15:54|
You know, politicians have - quite rightly most of the time - a terrible reputation amongst the general public.
However, it does make you thankful that there are at least some reasonably intelligent and objective minds who have created our democratic justice system.
Imagine if it had been born from the mind of people like reckre? Can you imagine what modern life in Britain today would be like if people like reckre were allowed to make decisions that affected other people? Just sit back for a second, and imagine it.
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 15:55|
"Some people just can't get past their natural, emotive response to it, but surely being able to see such cases dispassionately is what makes us civilised."
That's probably a very similar way the Nazis explained away their treatment of the Jews.
|gravyboat Posted on 05/03/2010 15:56|
'That's probably a very similar way the Nazis explained away their treatment of the Jews'
|oooooo Posted on 05/03/2010 15:59|
Right, so if you don't advocate executing kids you are a nazi.
|Towell Posted on 05/03/2010 17:06|
???? NERO ?????
|gizzy_red Posted on 05/03/2010 17:09|
He has had his chance, now torture him like he did to Jamie
|Nero Posted on 05/03/2010 18:03|
Sorry, not explained very well. I was just heading out of the office.
What I mean is, by detaching yourself from your emotions. The Nazis are rightly condemed from their arrogant detachment from the suffering they inflicted.
There could be an argument that judging Venables without emotion is similar to how the Nazis went about things.
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 19:09|
gravyboat - you're right, we're much better as a spineless society who reward and vinidcate crimes.
Heaven help you if anything ever happens to someone you love or care about, cos lets face it you're not gonna do XXXXXX all are you? Of course you could put your faith in the British "justice" system.
|petedreadnought Posted on 05/03/2010 19:16|
You're just being utterly ridiculous now, reckre.
|THEBOROBOSS Posted on 05/03/2010 19:29|
I heard a rumour and i took it with a large pinch of salt the other swine(Thompson)is living in Thornaby.
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 19:38|
Nah, I'm just sick of the spineless PC brigade trying to make excuses for everything and anything. It's like watching a load of sheep.
You can't seriously tell me you have faith in the Britsh "justice" system? Next you'll be telling me that all rapists and paedophiles aren't evil, they just have an illness that needs curing.
The bottom line is Jon Venables committed something no normal decent 10yr old kid would even know how to do. Then, after a handful of years in prison, he is out to live a normal life. New identity, new life, no one gets to know what he has done. He could have been your next door neighbour and you wouldn't even know. The whole thing is a farce. And this is without even talking about the thousands of pounds in money the whole sham has cost.
BTW, if you haven't ever read or studied the case, perhaps you should. This wasn't some freak accident. This was a planned act of torture executed on a TWO YEAR OLD CHILD.
We have rapists and paedophiles out in society committing time and time again AND still getting released from prison. WHY? Cos they've served their time right? As far as I'm concerned our justice system is indefensible and makes a mockery of anyone seeking justice.
|r00fie Posted on 05/03/2010 19:46|
Youre right: "........jon venables committed something no normal....10 year old would..know how to do..."
Why then did he do waht he did? Think on?
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 19:50|
Well that's down to opinions. Some would argue due to his up bringing, others would argue he had underlying psychological issues. Hell, others would argue he was just plain evil.
The fact is he did it, and IMO as I have vocally pointed out numerous times he should have been executed. However, if this wasn't to be the case, to have released out of jail after 8/9 years was wrong wrong wrong. XXXXXX thinking about the offenders, how about people start thinking about the victims for once.
|Marc_Feld Posted on 05/03/2010 19:52|
Apparently Huntley's ex lives in Bedlington
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 19:52|
She used to live in Acomb, York for a short while apparently.
|r00fie Posted on 05/03/2010 19:55|
To repeat comments on a previous thread about three days ago: would you take a 10 year old boy (think of a cousin/nephew/brother/neighbours kid) and convince your self you would personally hang him.
What affect will that have on preventing similar situations from happening in the future?
How can the risk of such happening again be reduced?
What mechanisms can be put in place in schools and by young peoples services?
|Marc_Feld Posted on 05/03/2010 19:58|
It's similar to the Mary Bell case
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 20:02|
As someone who believes certain people are plain evil (rapists, paedo's, the above etc) answers are the following:
1. No one can answer that regarding any situation, however the intention would for it to act as a deterrent.
2. How can the risk of what happeneing again? If we are talking about the abduction, torture and murder of a 2 year old child then in this case when Mr Venables first attempted and failed an abduction he should have been dealt with by our useless justice system.
3. There's constant failings here. The whole system needs an overhaul. Now. Just look at what happened recently in South Yorks. Incidentally there's two more who will probably get released with new identities etc.
|r00fie Posted on 05/03/2010 20:25|
"How can the risk of such happening again be reduced"?
"The whole system needs an overhaul".
Two closely related issues.In order to reduce risk we need to look at how we might be able to do it.
We need to define what "system" we are talking about here. Is it the leagal system? Children and Young Peoples Services? Social Services? Family Courts? School Nurses? Educational Psychologists? Children and Adolescent Psychiatric Services? Youth workers? Family support Workers? Psychiatric nurses?
|reckre Posted on 05/03/2010 20:46|
Actually, I'd go for all of the above.
|r00fie Posted on 05/03/2010 20:52|
Ok, what do you propose and how are we going to 2overhaul the whole system"? this is the difficult bit............something that journalists and charlottans find no answer to .
|Spartakus Posted on 05/03/2010 21:26|
OK here is the litmus test on this case for the lynching mob.
If the two children responsible for the death of poor james Bulger where of an age where they fully understood all the ramifications of their actions would you have been happy that the jury at their trial was made up of children of the same age as them? Because surely this Jury would be able to make the complex judgements needed to asses the issues inolved
Would you be happy if you were on trial and the jury was made up of 10 and 11 year olds?
Have a think about it.
|petedreadnought Posted on 05/03/2010 21:31|
I heard a rumour and i took it with a large pinch of salt the other swine(Thompson)is living in Thornaby.
Apparently he's also lived in Australia, Wales, Kent, Inverness, Guisborough, Durham, Exeter.
People will always try and guess where these people live. I doubt they get it right most of the time.
|Marc_Feld Posted on 05/03/2010 21:32|
Thompson allegedly lives somewhere in the north with his gay lover.
|petedreadnought Posted on 05/03/2010 21:37|
reckre, the more I read your angry, vengeful posts and the tabloid-esque sound bites you plump them up with, the more I think you're on a wind-up.
I suppose message boards are a good place for people like yourself to express your feelings about incidents like. A chance for you to get incredibly emotional and go on about what you think should happen, because let's be honest; in the forum where it matters no one would pay attention to anything you had to say.
|petedreadnought Posted on 05/03/2010 21:40|
Thompson allegedly lives somewhere in the north with his gay lover.
Yeah, allegedly he also dresses cats up in mock-Nazi uniforms and shoots rods of pure uranium out of his arsehole.
|degsyspesh Posted on 05/03/2010 21:47|
ffs, as truly horrific as what they did was - they were TEN years old.
I'm sure (well at least I hope) that nobody on this board did anything that even approaches what these two did when they were ten - but if you look back I'm equally sure that pretty much everyone will have done things that they wouldn't have done if they were older.
These two children (which is all they are) had a horrific upbringing. If they had been brought up in a loving settled family the whole thing would never have happened.
But it did. Should they have been let out after eight years?? - not a f'ing chance. Should they ever have been let out? Quite possibly not. But at the end of the day they are a product of a broken society - and the rest of society has a responsibility towards them.
Those who advocate hanging them and worse really need to think about what they are saying
|littlejimmy Posted on 05/03/2010 22:42|
Nero, your comparison with the Nazi treatment of Jews is specious and frankly silly.
If you were up in front of a judge and jury (rightly or wrongly accused), would you want people with an emotional attachment to the alleged crime who couldn't see past their feelings about you, or people who were able to put their feelings aside and judge on the FACTS.
If you want the former, there are countries where you can find such practices such as Saudi Arabia...or you can build a time machine to go back to when people were hung drawn and quartered in public.
|viv_andersons_nana Posted on 05/03/2010 23:00|
"I have vocally pointed out numerous times he should have been executed."
You say that as if it's something you'd be proud to see happen. They were TEN. Come on, get with it matey. You're talking complete balderdash.
|Only_Me Posted on 05/03/2010 23:13|
How can you be open with the public when you've invested so much in preserving someone's anonymity? There's a very real chance that the parole board will release him again - telling everyone what happened is just going mean they have to give him *another* new identity. "
Why does it necessarily follow that he would have to be given a new identity, if the public were told what he's done this time?
If there is a danger that whoever he assaulted ( if that is actually what he did ) would squeal on him, then that will happen anyway, regardless of whether the public know his actual crime this time. So I can't see your argument there.
I think the public has a right to know what the thousands, upon thousands, of pounds worth of rehabilitation he has had, actually consisted of and whether any failings by the authorities in this regard, can be identified and lessons learned etc., ad infinitum!
I also think that having already been given a new start and making a pigs ear of it, knowing fullwell, that the red carpet of rehab had been laid down for him, he should have been a very grateful young man indeed and should have had the common courtesy to put himself and his private education to good use. That he could disrespect the tax payers in the way he has, for me, should be the end of his special treatment. He's a grown man now, let him figure things out for himself and if that means that prison or public life is uncomfortable for him, so what. How many more chances do the bleeding hearts want him to have? Are we as a society going to still be clearing up his mess when he's 87?
A line needs to be drawn and now is as good a time as any.
One further point that is worth remembering is this.
In order to have a completely new i.d. he will have been given a clear crb check. This means, that he has had opportunity to have access to other peoples kids and nobody would have been any the wiser, that he may pose a risk.
That is wrong and no amount of hand wringing, will justify that.
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 08:16|
Perhaps his latest victim would have liked to have known about his previous. He is now been jailed for serious sexual allegations.
Our judicial system and the person or panel responsible for making the decisions their made on these evil cnuts should be held culpable. I personally have absolutely no faith or trust in our judicial or government.
|gravyboat Posted on 06/03/2010 08:24|
What should have happened, 263?
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 08:27|
To commit the crimes they committed even as 10 yo's they should be still inside. 8 years for premeditated murder is a disgrace.
How do you think the judicial system should have dealt with these two?
|gravyboat Posted on 06/03/2010 08:29|
How long should they have got?
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 08:30|
How long do you think? I think life.
|gravyboat Posted on 06/03/2010 08:35|
Two children should be locked up until they die with no option of rehabilitation and parol, ever?
Sorry, but that is just not the basis of the judicial system in this country, nor should it be.
If you want that sort of punishment, you need to move to a less tolerant country. Saudi Arabia perhaps.
|reckre Posted on 06/03/2010 08:42|
XXXXXX me i thought the southgate apologists were bad! Now i see we have apologists for nearly every heinous crime committed! At least we know where to rehouse all criminals now, you guys wont mind them in the sane street as you, right?
|Nero Posted on 06/03/2010 08:43|
My comparison wasn't aimed at judges and such. It was meant for the extreme liberal minded such as yourself.
You and oooo almost paint Venables as the victim in all of this.
By the way, it now appears that he's back inside for a serious sexual crime. Is he still some type of victim?
The lad has and always had serious mental issues and should never have been let out.
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 08:44|
I think you'll find pampering pyscopaths to near death in the hope of rehab is a waste of time and effort. I hope you are not related to Venables' latest victim.
Where's the rehab for the baby they murdered?
|easy-britain Posted on 06/03/2010 11:10|
ive read this this morning and some ppl on this board just boil my blood check the link and hope that none ov your family or freinds go through wat poor jamie and his family went through them boys no wat there were doing (through him infront ov a car,bus total waste ov time and effort hang the b a s t e r d s they say time is a good healer not in this case they should be locked up 24 hours a day if they were a dog they would ov been put down enough said
|LucyFir Posted on 06/03/2010 11:30|
Death is too good for these pair ofXXXXXXs - i'd like to see them torchured on a daily basis or left alone in a padded white cell with no contact with a human ever again
|Towell Posted on 06/03/2010 11:36|
They aren't psychopaths though, or at least have never been diagnoses as such.
At least one of them has managed to live some semblance of a normal life.
Would you do the torturing like Lucy?
Sound like a bit of a psychopath to me.
|easy-britain Posted on 06/03/2010 11:41|
i would love to do the torturing i`m no sicko just easely pleased
|Towell Posted on 06/03/2010 11:43|
Think about what you're actually saying and if you'd really still like to torture another person then I think you need psychiatric help.
|LucyFir Posted on 06/03/2010 11:47|
i'm talking about mental torchure - far more effective
|Towell Posted on 06/03/2010 11:50|
I just don't think you can have your cake and eat it.
Having a liberal and free society and then killing your citizens when they step out of line.
You take the rough with the smooth and although what they did was sickening I believe that It's societies obligation to attempt to rehabilitate people who have a chance of being rehabilitated.
Obviously with complete psychopaths this isn't possible.
|gravyboat Posted on 06/03/2010 11:51|
Is that some sort of light deprivation practise?
|easy-britain Posted on 06/03/2010 11:52|
you got no kids then ?think ov wat your state ov mind would be if you had to go throuh somthing like that as a parent
|reckre Posted on 06/03/2010 11:54|
Why are we always concerned about what is good for the offenders? Shouldn't our concerns be with the victims?
Like I put earlier, all the people sat all high and mighty might think a little different if they had someone like Jon Venables as their neighbour.
|LucyFir Posted on 06/03/2010 11:55|
why should murderers get a second chance - poor jamie didn't,his life was taken from him in the most horrible way - he had 80 years of life ahead of him and his poor parents have had to try rebuild their lives knowing those two pratts don't give a shyte about what they did
|reckre Posted on 06/03/2010 11:57|
"You take the rough with the smooth and although what they did was sickening I believe that It's societies obligation to attempt to rehabilitate people who have a chance of being rehabilitated."
Societies obligation? What about the XXXXXXing obligation the justice system has to their victims? Sure release them, but dont hide their identities. Then lets see what societies obligation is.
Besides, how do you define "chance of being rehabilitated".
Do you believe Paedophiles have an illness that can be cured? If so, lets hope you get one as your next door neighbour and see how you react. Maybe you can invite them round to bbq's in the summer?
|JonMc Posted on 06/03/2010 12:02|
I know it's a bit of a tangent but Bulger's 'poor' parent was using him as a decoy while she was out shoplifting which is why he was unattended. Mebbys she could have cared for him more while was alive.
I don't want to live in a country that has 10yr olds swinging from a gibbet.
A life sentence should mean a life sentence.
|gravyboat Posted on 06/03/2010 12:02|
The thing is, people consistantly fail to understand why it is imperative to make decisions like this with no emotional influence.
If James Bulger had been a member of my family, I'd have wanted to hunt the littleXXXXXXs down and stab them in the eyes. Of course I would, as would 99.9% of people who suffered the horrific attack of a loved one.
Fortunately, however, the British judical system stops people from doing this. It stops people from doing this, because where would it end? I'd end up locked up, and to what end? Because dishing out revenge made me feel a bit better?
Whether you like it or not, a liberal, tolerent Western society like Britian uses its penal system to rehabilitate. That's what it's there for, for those who aren't considered beyond it. These two boys were not considered beyond it.
The system only works if every case is considered along the same parameters. Public opinion is a complete irrelevance.
|mattrich Posted on 06/03/2010 12:21|
"know it's a bit of a tangent but Bulger's 'poor' parent was using him as a decoy while she was out shoplifting which is why he was unattended. Mebbys she could have cared for him more while was alive."
I have never heard this part of the story before!
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 13:16|
BUT... BUT ....BUT the great British judicial system is not working and neither is rehab.... which is my point.
|SGATE_NOSE_BEST Posted on 06/03/2010 13:33|
those evil tisted kids murdered a baby at 10years old. when i was ten i played football and hide and seek. i never thought of planning a murder for a laugh and a giggle.
evil XXXXXXs, they should of been strung up in liverpool town centre. for all the world to see what happens for murdering babies.
maybe baby pee would not of been killed because they would of remembered what happens to people for that crime!!!
|reckre Posted on 06/03/2010 13:34|
I'm sick of seeing these offenders get sympathy. I don't want people like that out on the streets, if people do then let them live with them!
Our judicial system is a complete farce. It was back then, and it still is now.
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 13:48|
The Seaton Canoe gadgie got a stiffer penalty than these two for the sake of a couple of £100k.
|Genghis_Khan Posted on 06/03/2010 14:32|
The point that the do gooding liberals are missing... in fact our whole judiciary system is missing... Justice should be concerned first and foremost with protection of society, not with rehabilitation nor retribution.
Our entire system is designed to rehabilitation, having worked closely with probation officers at addressing sex offenders offending behaviour it is clear to me and far more qualified people that some people simply cannot be rehabilitated and should be removed from society for our safety.
|The_Holgate_Hero_Before_Christmas Posted on 06/03/2010 14:45|
"maybe baby pee would not of been killed because they would of remembered what happens to people for that crime!!!"
completely different though you thick chunt
|Boro_since_74 Posted on 06/03/2010 14:46|
Blimey this is a scarey thread! I'm a bit worried about going to the match next week and sharing a ground with this rabid lynch-mob. Those who want to execute children for the ills of adult society should shine a light on themselves. Children aren't born psychopaths - adults make them so. There's a few people on here I wouldn't trust to bring up a child.
Still the match is starting soon so lets calm down.
|Steer Posted on 06/03/2010 14:50|
True Rehabilitation of offenders would actually protect society. i.e. a truly rehabilitated offender who now realises right from wrong, realises the the horrific outcome of their previous action and has turned away from their bad pasts, and is no longer a threat to society.
No amount of retribution will change what has been done.
|littlejimmy Posted on 06/03/2010 15:01|
There are people who have been kept (or would have been) inside for ever because they are deemed beyond rehabilitation...the likes of Fred West, Harold Shipman, Ian Brady, Ian Huntley...and rightly so. The people who decided what to do with Venables and Thompson obviously decided that they could be rehabilitated, although it should be remembered they are under licence for life and can go back to prison for any transgression, as we have seen happening.
I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to make such decisions. Even if you have the qualifications to make such a judgement call, it must be one of the hardest jobs in the world.
|aytonboro Posted on 06/03/2010 15:03|
some people will never be rehabilitated. any sane ten year old knows it is wrong to torture and kill a baby. these lads are sick and twisted and the fact that jack straw has come out and said it is a serious offence he has committed seems to have passed the liberal do gooders by.
wake up, they are stone cold killers they do not deserve freedom.
|Manfriday Posted on 06/03/2010 15:17|
Would stringing the 2 kids up in liverpool town centre prevent a 10yr old committing the same crime? I doubt very much it would. Didnt 10yr old pickpockets used to get strung up? It didnt stop gangs of young pickpockets though
|changingman Posted on 06/03/2010 15:23|
In this country murder is murder as oppose to the US where they have different degrees.
Therefore the judge in essence had their hands tied over what they could do. In a significant public interest case I'm sure the judge will have been swayed to give a "harsher than the norm" verdict.
A verdict which has been served. I really don't see therefore why anyone can have interest in what he has done as it cannot really have an impact on anyones life (apart from Venables')
In my eyes a sad indictment on the media-led "jeremy kyle" society we live in, where everyone believes they have a right to know what everyone else is doing in order to satisfy their perverse fascinations.
|The_Holgate_Hero_Before_Christmas Posted on 06/03/2010 15:25|
"In my eyes a sad indictment on the media-led "jeremy kyle" society we live in, where everyone believes they have a right to know what everyone else is doing in order to satisfy their perverse fascinations. "
thats a very good point to be fair
|bodmass Posted on 06/03/2010 15:37|
'Children aren't born psychopaths - adults make them so'
Wrong - psycopaths are born that way.
There's one reason and one reason only why the public aren't being told about Venebles return to prison. It's because it embarrasses this inept Labour government who released him. Labour is full of bleeding hearts who are soft on crime. It's one more mistake in a long list of incompetence from Labour.
|changingman Posted on 06/03/2010 15:43|
I think in relation to so-called "psychopaths" it could come down to the old nature vs nurture debate.
However I must confess I haven't read the transcripts of the case and therefore coulnd't pass comment on the mental health of the accused boys.
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 16:09|
Perhaps there is just too much leniency in our judicial system. They have both received far more opportunities in early life than their social peer group in Liverpool who managed to resist the temptation to butcher a baby at 10 years old.
|Warwick_Hunt Posted on 06/03/2010 16:19|
What do you all think of Mary Bell?
|Link: Thoughts on this|
|Only_Me Posted on 06/03/2010 16:45|
" Bulger's 'poor' parent was using him as a decoy while she was out shoplifting which is why he was unattended. Mebbys she could have cared for him more while was alive."
Do you have any proof of this? Or is this another, typical attempt by a labour politician, to smear and abuse and libel the victims in our society, rather than looking to the governments own failings? Hmmm?
I read a lot about this case and absolutely nowhere, did I read anything, that that implicated Denise in any crime whatsoever. Even if she had been engaged in 'shoplifting' or anything else, this does not excuse what those children did.
" Perhaps his latest victim would have liked to have known about his previous. He is now been jailed for serious sexual allegations."
If that is the case, then pity the poor victim. Another crime that could have been avoided, were it not for the hand wringers.
"Our judicial system and the person or panel responsible for making the decisions their made on these evil cnuts should be held culpable. I personally have absolutely no faith or trust in our judicial or government."
Nothing to argue about there.
Rehabilitation does not work, or rather our penal system which centres on rehab, doesn't work. That's why we have so many thousands of repeat offenders, who have absolutely no fear of going to prison. And why should they, 3 square meals per day, no tax to pay and all mod cons etc., - they can even smoke in their cells. Nowhere, other than the fact they are locked up, does a sentence contain any element of punishment or deterrant.
Young offenders aren't even told that they are naughty, for fear of upsetting the poor little mites.
No wonder the country has gone to the dogs.
" maybe baby pee would not of been killed because they would of remembered what happens to people for that crime!!!"
completely different though you thick chunt "
The only difference is the age of the offenders - the repeated torture and ultimate death of an innocent baby is exactly the same.
And there's another candidate for a new i.d. and all the protection that the boys in blue can afford, should Baby P's killers ever be released.
Perhaps there is just too much leniency in our judicial system. They have both received far more opportunities in early life than their social peer group in Liverpool who managed to resist the temptation to butcher a baby at 10 years old."
Can't argue with that 263.
There are many kids living in poverty in deprived areas in Liverpool and other towns ( Middlesbrough very definitely being one of them, Jon Mc! ) Who do their level best to live decent and honest lives and who try to raise themselves out of the government enforced poverty trap that they are stuck in.
|Boro_since_74 Posted on 06/03/2010 16:50|
You can tell the match is going badly
|The_Holgate_Hero_Before_Christmas Posted on 06/03/2010 16:56|
"The only difference is the age of the offenders"
you mean and the fact that the bulger killers were convicted of murder whereas the baby p killers were cleared of that charge?
or is this something youve decided to overlook?
|cohen Posted on 06/03/2010 17:16|
The reason we are not being told about why he has been returned to prison is that the allegations are serious to warrant a probable prosecution.
In order for a fair trial to take place the case cannot be prejudiced by the story being splashed all over the papers.
If he cannot be perceived as receiving a fair trial, he may escape prosecution - that is why the reason for he return to prison is being kept from the public.
|r00fie Posted on 06/03/2010 17:56|
Prisoners on licence can be taken back into prison, for as little as being late back in their hostel,or not ringing the police from their home on a secure connection at the right time. Its easy to exagerate.
|cohen Posted on 06/03/2010 18:00|
Yes, but Jack Straw has stated he faces ""extremely serious allegations" so it's not something trivial!
|Rodney_Trotter Posted on 06/03/2010 18:00|
He hasn`t been taken back for a minor offence according The Sun.
It does appear they are straining at the leash.
|r00fie Posted on 06/03/2010 18:20|
Rupert Murdochs "SUN" is now the Judge and Jury of British Justice is it? Happy supporting our soldiers being sent to their deaths on a pack of lies, now it claims to have some morality. Pious hypocrites.
|Rodney_Trotter Posted on 06/03/2010 18:22|
Nobody is saying it is!
I just linked to the story and commented that they are straining at the leash, IMO, to reveal his identity.
The editor knows very well if he did he would end up in prison.
|The_263 Posted on 06/03/2010 18:24|
British judicial system: Jack Straw
End of debate
|LucyFir Posted on 06/03/2010 20:40|
I'd be more than happy to pay the extra in tax required to keep scum like these two off the streets for good - why should they have the chance to be rehabilitated? has jamie got a second chance of life,and do you think his parents wanted Venables and Thompson back on the streets free to live a normal life,paid for by us tax payers i might add,whilst they have had to try rebuild their lives - sod the scum that can't live by the law of the land,lets look after the victims instead
|onthemap Posted on 06/03/2010 20:50|
You do know he was 10 years old?
|Nero Posted on 06/03/2010 20:51|
What gets me is if these new allegations against Venables are true, then it just proves that he's a seriously messed up person.
No amount of councelling and rehabiliation has changed that. It appears to have made him think like the rest of us, but there will have always been that underlying wickedness that he can't help going back to.
I would never condone hanging the little swines back in 93, but they shouldn't have been allowed to live amoungst the population again.
They were not a victim of circumstance. They planned and carried out an horrific crime on a defenceless 2 year old.
Venables himself had a history of violance even at 10 years of age.
|susy Posted on 06/03/2010 20:57|
We have historically tried the death penalty, the stringing people up and shaming them, the locking them up and throwing away the key and now rehabilitation. It seems that the "system" fails society. There is no way sometimes of knowing what people will be capable of after their time inside, im sure the qualified mental health experts would back me up here. Some individual people will respond well to rehabilitation, and leave prison and lead a good life and not reoffend, others however will fall off the wagon in a modest way others will harm someone and this is the problem.
We could lock up everyone who harms others but our prisons would be full even if we built on in every town!
As for Jon Venerables, we can only surmise why he has been put into prison this time. We hear it is because he has committed a serious offence. There maybe really good reasons why we are not beiing given this information, maybe he has children that would be hurt in the process by the press intrusion.... it wouldnt be their fault, maybe it is to ensure the case does not get thrown out due to the press screwing it up, maybe its so he can do proper time inside rather than having to be in solitary for the rest of his life and many more other reasons. We will find out if it is not going to harm someone if we do.
|Mickey Posted on 06/03/2010 22:53|
Why should the general public know and what would they do with the info if told ?
|teamleadersareidiots Posted on 07/03/2010 08:03|
So now we find out the horrible little chunt has been involved in child pornography.Thats an impressive CV he is building up.What a vile horrible scrote he really is.
|Fletch Posted on 07/03/2010 08:30|
Any of you amateur child psychiatrists / psychologists change your opinion and expert diagnosis's now we know what a lot of you clever sh*tes stated we didn't have to know?
Know it all w*nkers the lot of them!
I'd would lock the other f*cker back up as well...
|degsyspesh Posted on 07/03/2010 08:49|
Still don't see what difference the general public knowing makes?
If he get's done for child porn he'll get sent down and hopefully stay there for ever.
|The_263 Posted on 07/03/2010 10:07|
I wonder if 'rehab' consisted of how to effectively abuse a child.
|Senor_Chester Posted on 07/03/2010 10:18|
Typical isn't it, I wonder what his latest victim thinks of the British judicial system.
Were far too soft on criminals as it is and this lad has been let out to commit a serious crime again, but hey, it was the right thing to do, think of his human rights.
It's quite staggering the amount of apologists on here as well for him, and the state of this whole 5hitty affair.
|The_263 Posted on 07/03/2010 10:24|
Some people on here think that coming across as being more concerned about the criminal than the victim is self appointment to the intelligentsia.
|Boro_since_74 Posted on 07/03/2010 19:29|
And another thing...