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still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 12:44
On the verge of something special

In 25 years of watching the Boro i have never been so optimistic as of now. The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant. Yes OK we gifted them two goals which ultimately gifted them the game but at times yesterday we looked, and this is no exaggeration, like a top 4 side. The way we knocked the ball about and dominated was a joy to behold. Gareth Southgate has got us playing in a manner which should not only catapult us into the top 8 and better but also ensure that the fans are entertained week in week out. We are playing passionate, high intenisty slick passing football. When was the last time we went to Anfield and played them off the park like that? We are undoubtedly on the verge of something special with this team. Full credit to Southgate and his staff for getting us here and full credit to Gibson for trusting his judgement in recognising the abilities that Gareth had as a manager. I hope yesterdays defeat hasnt dented the players' confidence and belief because if they continue to play like that they will achieve great things. Lets hope that us as fans can do our part and fill the ground, give them the backing they deserve and fully appreciate just how good an opportunity this is for success.

Roll on Wednesday.

mat_evans Posted on 24/02/2008 12:58
On the verge of something special

Good post.

I can't remember a time when there was no immediate need to buy because there one postion that was weak. Our first choice eleven has a great balance too it, we look very strong in most positions across the first eleven. Add that to that fact the team are all moving as one and playing like a team now, the future looks very bright indeed.


AlBoro1984 Posted on 24/02/2008 12:59
On the verge of something special

We are getting there but still need a new goalkeeper, a left back and central midfielder.

mat_evans Posted on 24/02/2008 13:09
On the verge of something special

There will always be another player we need, but we have a balance and solidity to the team alround. Taylor is yet too come back, Rochembck and Arca are doing a very good job in midfield and although skippy will need replacing, he's still generally doing a decent job on the whole. We're not desperate for any position really.

Brick_Tamland Posted on 24/02/2008 13:12
On the verge of something special

I think Shawky will put Arca's place under threat. He could be a fantastic signing for us.

I agree that it now about settling the squad and not looking to bring in loads of unknowns next summer. One or two good additions with a new goalkeeper and I think we'll be good next season.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 13:19
On the verge of something special

I think Scwarzer will be gone in the summer so we'll need a new keeper. Apart from that i dont think we need any other positions filling. I'd like to see a few of the youngsters brought through next year, Walker and Franks in particular look like theyre nearly ready for more of a role in the first team squad. If i'm being really greedy i'd like us to sign a top class right winger which would free GON to play centrally which i believe to be his best position.

borogrape Posted on 24/02/2008 13:24
On the verge of something special

Good post s_s_o_t_h and I share your views and your optimism.

Space_Face Posted on 24/02/2008 13:24
On the verge of something special

I agree with Mat but would like a new central midfielder in the summer to partner either Rocky or Arca (atm Rocky). Shawky may be the man, but I have only seen him play once so cannot be sure.

Bukowski Posted on 24/02/2008 13:26
On the verge of something special

"Rochembck and Arca are doing a very good job in midfield"

Have you watched Arca's recent performances? He has been absolutely sh~te. A liability. He's definitely a weak link at the moment.

We are about three of four players away from bring a VERY good team though. We've played some great football this season even if results haven't reflected that.

Let's hope we stay up easily this season (I'll never be relaxed until we're assured of survival) and I think we can do something special next season. Or maybe even in the cup this season.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 13:32
On the verge of something special

Arcas still finding his form after being out for so long. I dont think you should forget how good he was before he was injured.

Bukowski Posted on 24/02/2008 13:38
On the verge of something special

He probably cost us three points yesterday and very nearly cost us last week.

I'd prefer he refind his form in the reserves or on the training ground because at the moment he's more of a threat to our own defence than the opposition's.

mat_evans Posted on 24/02/2008 13:41
On the verge of something special

Bukowski have you heard the term, "form is temporary, class is permanent"?

Bukowski Posted on 24/02/2008 13:45
On the verge of something special

I'm not saying we should get rid of him but he doesn't deserve to be starting for us at present.

He cost us precious points yesterday and he puts the S***s up me whenever he has the ball in our own half at the moment.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 13:48
On the verge of something special

The only way he'll get to his previously high standards is by playing first team football. He's not playing as bad as you make out anyway.

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 24/02/2008 13:54
On the verge of something special

Arca's not been that bad, just a knee jerk reaction to a high-profile mistake.

I thought the midfield passed it around quite well yesterday.

Bukowski Posted on 24/02/2008 13:58
On the verge of something special

He has been woeful for us from a defensive point of view in recent games. That can't be denied. He's making sloppily giving the ball away in our own half into an art form. I'd hate to play behind him as a defender.

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/02/2008 13:58
On the verge of something special

Arca is quality, but he is playing S*** at the moment and he needs to be dropped, because he is a liability.

ian_elliot Posted on 24/02/2008 14:00
On the verge of something special

As fantastic as Arca was playing with Rochemback before his injury, he has been poor verging on shocking since he came back.

I'd give him a rest and play Boateng or Shawky in his place, or possibly even move Gary O'Neil infield and play Tuncay on the right to allow Mido and Alves much needed match minutes against Sheff Utd.

Space_Face Posted on 24/02/2008 14:01
On the verge of something special

'He's not playing as bad as you make out anyway.'


Yes, he is.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 14:02
On the verge of something special

Well if you say he is then he must be. Good point well made. Ever thought about going into politics?

Bukowski Posted on 24/02/2008 14:04
On the verge of something special

I watched the match live yesterday and can confirm he had another stinker.

richboro Posted on 24/02/2008 14:21
On the verge of something special

Agree with first post, but I also agree with Bukowski concerning Arca.

He is playing absolutely awful at the moment. He should be setting an example for the rest of the players, and playing like he is now is not doing that he is truly woeful.

We definately need a new keeper - priority signing in the summer.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 14:26
On the verge of something special

Perhaps its the burden of the captaincy? We saw it with Boateng and Woody.

richboro Posted on 24/02/2008 14:33
On the verge of something special

It has to be. I've said this all along, give the captaincy to Luke Young.

outoftowned Posted on 24/02/2008 14:35
On the verge of something special

not convinced about "the burden of captaincy theory" for any of them - where, or what, is the extra stress?

I said a couple of week ago that arca is in poor form, but as his pass to downing shows, he has genuine class

when he is playing well, he makes playing centre mid look pis easy; always looks like he has loads of time, makes the right decision, first time/ one touch football

at the minute he looks like he is really having to concentrate, one more touch to control it etc


mat_evans Posted on 24/02/2008 15:08
On the verge of something special

Outofowned being captain does make a difference to your play. I don't know if you've captain a team before but there are things you have to do and 'worry' about that you wouldn't normally do. It means that it's hard to focus 100% on your own game.

Anyway, i maintain that arca is just going through a bad patch like many players do in their career. A lot of people have short memories, everyone was raving about him five months ago and now you want him replacing. Well typical boro in many respects i suppose.

Venizzle Posted on 24/02/2008 15:18
On the verge of something special

Agree with the optimistic initial post, however we still struggle for consistency, how many time this season he thought we are looking good and then games like Birmingham away pop up and we blow all our good work.

We have a good 11 we are building strength in depth and playing good stuff at times. things are looking good, lets grab the handfull of points we need to stay in the league, flirt with the FA Cup and start fresh next season trying to build a consistent side and we should do well.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 24/02/2008 16:09
On the verge of something special

Every team in the league has off days. Thats football.

Bandy Posted on 24/02/2008 19:57
On the verge of something special

What a brilliant first post. Finally someone who shares my opinion on where we are and where we can go.

sasboro1 Posted on 24/02/2008 20:00
On the verge of something special

if we were up where villa,blackburn, man city, pompey or everton are then i would believe the title of the thread. at the moment we are only 3 pointa ahead of a team like wigan. so are they on the verge of something special too?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 24/02/2008 20:05
On the verge of something special

We're heading in the direction Southgate wants us too now, but we can't afford to rest on our laurels. There's still some way to go. They say if you stand still in this league, you go backwards. Southgate will still need to tweak the squad during the summer, but you can't say the squad needs a radical overhaul or owt. We have the nucleus of a squad that can challenge for the top 6 or 7 in a year or two's time, providing that we can keep our best players, replace them with quality if they leave and bring in the right players to improve the squad.

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 24/02/2008 20:09
On the verge of something special

No Wigan arn't on the verge of something special.

All the signs are looking positive for us, we are a different team to the first half of the season. We've just signed a new striker, Downing is on the verge of comiting his future to the club as is Wheater. We are playing with confidence and Southgate is maturing into the job and winning fans over all the time.

I agree that we are looking in better shape than I can remember.

onthemap Posted on 24/02/2008 20:10
On the verge of something special

That first post, saying we were 'brilliant' and how we looked like 'a top four' side, is the idea for us to claim the deluded tag from up the road?

Or is it a wind up that some have missed?


unluckyagain Posted on 24/02/2008 20:15
On the verge of something special

If Huth had played yesterday we would have won that game.

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 24/02/2008 20:15
On the verge of something special

No, not a wind up. Just fans enjoying watching us play some good football.

Isn't life at the Boro looking good at the moment 'onthemap'?

onthemap Posted on 24/02/2008 20:44
On the verge of something special

In the league we are abysmal, there's no debate, look at the table, are Newcastle on the cusp of greatness, this is so off the mark it's scary.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 01:25
On the verge of something special

I think spurs are on the verge of something special now.

all that is happening now is we are playing our easiest home games of the season.(5 of them) even in the FA cup we have yet to come up against a premier league side.

Juno Posted on 25/02/2008 01:38
On the verge of something special

Why do people think we need a new left back?

Taylor has been class.

Borocelt Posted on 25/02/2008 01:45
On the verge of something special

I'd love to agree, I really would but....

I think we need a right winger.

I think we need an established central midfielder.

I think we need an established striker (Now I accept this could be Afonso Alves, but we don't know as of yet).

Sadly, I think we're some way off challenging at the top. Someday though, i hope.

marktheborofan Posted on 25/02/2008 01:59
On the verge of something special

In the summer, I would like to see us sign the following players that I believe would improve us:

Ben Watson - Keeper
Kevin Nolan - Box to box midfielder
James Milner - As a replacement for GON if Newcastle go down (I would love it).

zaphod Posted on 25/02/2008 01:59
On the verge of something special

It's too soon to be drawing conclusions. Until Alves gets fit, we can't even be sure we've solved our striking problems.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 25/02/2008 07:20
On the verge of something special

'Taylor has been class.'

Taylor hasn't been class at all. The defence strengthened when Pogatetz came in to replace him. He looked weak and lacking pace for a while before he disappeared from the side. He's still growing and learning and will get his early form back in time.

Grounds has done a decent job the couple of times I've seen him, another excellent prospect, but we'd be better off with Pog at left back and Huth back in the centre of defence. We need strength at the back due to the weaknesses in the centre of midfield.

kermit Posted on 25/02/2008 09:01
On the verge of something special

Who is Ben Watson?

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 09:05
On the verge of something special

I think the thread title and initial post is a bit OTT, on the other hand, I think Mappy and Sas's response is rediculously underwhelming. But then again if we win the FA cup this year, the first post from those two will be how the extra UEFA cup games will get us relegated!

My opinion is that there are certainly grounds for optimism. We have a good first XI, and a handful of good subs, ultimately the squad is a little too small, but that can be rectified in the summer.

We have played some good stuff in recent weeks, and you can certainly see teh style of footy that Southgate wants starting to show on a regular basis. But we need to be a bit more clinical up the top end.

Fergie says that when he joined united it took him 18 months to clear out the players he didn't want, 18 months to bring in the players he wanted, and 18 months to get tehm to play the way he wanted. Thats 4 1/2 years. So I think there is a lot mroe to come from Southgates side.

He is most of the way through getting rid of the players he doesn't want - Riggs, Mendi, Boat may be the next ones to go. He has already started to rebuild HIS team.

The thing is that previous Boro managers have in general brought in players around 28-31 year old. You can never build a team around those players, because they decline before the team is built. The current players are all around 24, if it takes 3 years to get them all in and then get them to play together then I am fairly optimistic, because these lads are still 3 or 4 years away from their prime.

We also have another good crop of youngsters to bolster the squad Franks, Porrit, Steele etc.

Ideally I think that we still need a couple of players, another striker would be nice, a CM with pace, a proper right-winger, a leftback, and a reserve CB. If we get those 5 in then I think Southgate will have the squad he wants and one that can finish top half.


onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 09:59
On the verge of something special

Is the table upside down?
Deluded.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:00
On the verge of something special

we have moved about 7 places up the league in recent weeks, we are looking like a team.

If hte table was upside down then we would still be a midtable side, moron.

bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:10
On the verge of something special

"The way we knocked the ball about and dominated was a joy to behold"

Unfortunately the boo boys will soon stop that when they break up the duo in the centre

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:10
On the verge of something special

had to laugh when Boromart decided to compare southgate to Fergie.

Thing is pompey,spurs,man city, blackburn,wigan,villa,everton, west ham and possibly sunderland fans will be saying the same thing. add in the top 4 teams and realistically we arent going to move much up the league as all those teams have plenty of money to spend and are building a squad.

Makes me laugh when people think we have been playing good football. fulham and wigan at home and sheff utd away was hardly exciting stuff. People are getting carried away a little. we have had quite a few easy games recently-mansfield,sheff utd,wigan and fulham. its obvious that 2nd half of the season our home form will improve because we are playing 5 of the worst teams at home.

come back in 12 months with ther same thread if we are where villa are now.

lets not get carried away we are still 18 points from a uefa cup place. thats the gap to fill next season

early signs of alves suggests we may still need strikers

bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:12
On the verge of something special

Actually 3 wins away from Europe this season

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:15
On the verge of something special

same as sheff utd,pompey, barnsley,bristol rovers, westbrom and cardiff then?

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:17
On the verge of something special

"early signs of alves suggests we may still need strikers"

Nice to see you've given him plenty of time to settle in Sas.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:20
On the verge of something special

"had to laugh when Boromart decided to compare southgate to Fergie. " -- in what way am I comparing Southgate to Fergie? (please answer this one for once instead of ignoring my questions!) All I am doing is saying that the prems most succeful manager states that it takes 4 1/2 years to build a team. I didn't compare abilities. So laugh away all you like, because most people are laughing at you and your inability to understand simple sentances.

"pompey" -- old squad, big money is starting to be crimped, poor youth policy.

"spurs" -- fair point
"man city" -- are only doing so well due to a massive injection of cash, that may not happen again this summer
"blackburn" -- moderately old suad, will need rebuilding
"wigan" -- behave
"villa" -- fair point
"everton" -- fair point
"west ham" -- old squad and big wages is a bad ploace to be. It's Robson-esque
"sunderland" -- now I know your talking utter bollox.

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 10:21
On the verge of something special

you should come to expect that now norman!

Sas mate, you are getting worse

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:22
On the verge of something special

thats why i said 'may'. early signs suggest he wont work hard and doesnt have much movement and doesnt seem physical enough. maybe that is something they can develop for next season. At theis level and in england you strikers have to be more hard working, mobile and able to handle the pace and physical side of the games. not all strikers from europe can make the jump. look at massimo for example, seems to be doing ok in italy.

"Sas mate, you are getting worse"

not at all. a sniff of a couple of wins against wigan.mansifeld and fulham and still in the last 16 of fa cup and every seems to be getting carried away as if we are suddenly goign to onto great things when there are about another 10 teams in better positions than us

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:23
On the verge of something special

I do Bandy, I just find it unbelieable that Onthemap and Sas will look high and low for a negative in even the most positive event.

As someone else said they'd greet European qualification with the words "we'll probably get relegated next season, as our league form will suffer".

They seem unable to appriciate any chinks of light at the end of the tunnel.

barneyblair Posted on 25/02/2008 10:23
On the verge of something special

Actually dont you think that the real reason for arca's slump is form ties in line with the fact he has taken the captains armband!! give it to GON then you will see a real leader on the pitch only improving his game and on the back of that arca can concentrate on just playing football again

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 25/02/2008 10:25
On the verge of something special

'Unfortunately the boo boys will soon stop that when they break up the duo in the centre'

So they're picking the team are they? You mustn't think very highly of Southgate.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:25
On the verge of something special

Norman he has given him about 70 mins longer than he gave Aliadiere.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:26
On the verge of something special

"Norman he has given him about 70 mins longer than he gave Aliadiere."

SN*****! ali who?

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:28
On the verge of something special

"thats why i said 'may'. early signs suggest he wont work hard and doesnt have much movement and doesnt seem physical enough. maybe that is something they can develop for next season. At theis level and in england you strikers have to be more hard working, mobile and able to handle the pace and physical side of the games. not all strikers from europe can make the jump. look at massimo for example, seems to be doing ok in italy. "


Why didnt you say "his record in Holland suggests he has the talent and he's still got to adapt to the English game, but you dont score that many goals if you havent got talent. Lets wait to see him next season when he's fit and had chance to get used to this new league" ?

Because you constantly look for the negatives, in a bid to say "told you so".

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 10:28
On the verge of something special

Only the same Ali that's fired us into the top 4 Sas, that's who.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:29
On the verge of something special

like I said a player who has been playing very well recently and all Sas can do is silly little digs at him. Sas is waiting for Alves to 'fail' so that he can say told you so, and Southgate out, etc. Sas is only happy when it rains.

"in what way am I comparing Southgate to Fergie? "

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:32
FAO Sas

in what way am I comparing Southgate to Fergie?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:34
On the verge of something special

Norman_Knobsock, not been negative here. just pointing out people are getting carried away. there are 10 teams in our position and their fans will be thinking exactly the same. if we were in spurs,everton,villa,pompey or man city's position then fair enough.

as for alves, not being negative just pointing he needs to change his game to be a success here. if he can do that then he has every chance of succeeding. style and quality of the league is different and not every player can adapt. He has to adapt to succeed. most of the top strikers in the premier league are physically strong and/or have pace.

onthemap, apparently aliadiere is having a good season. 3 goals from 24 games. and o'neill has more assists.

I'm percieved as negatice jsut cos i want us to push on play better players..etc

bormart:-

"Fergie says that when he joined united it took him 18 months to clear out the players he didn't want, 18 months to bring in the players he wanted, and 18 months to get tehm to play the way he wanted. Thats 4 1/2 years. So I think there is a lot mroe to come from Southgates side."

you are implying that southgate can do the same thing

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:36
On the verge of something special

"as for alves, not being negative just pointing he needs to change his game to be a success here"

No you weren’t, you said, and I quote:-

"early signs of alves suggests we may still need strikers"

Perhaps you're just inarticulate?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:39
On the verge of something special

"may"

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 10:41
On the verge of something special

Can we not stop all this bickering now we're top 4? Some people are never happy, I bet Wigan aren't complaining because they're one point off top 4.

Negative F***ers.

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:42
On the verge of something special

The first statement bears no correlation whatsoever to what you've claimed in the second statement you were trying to say.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:44
On the verge of something special

thats the thing Ononemap. we are only 3 points ahead of sunderland and wigan. I could understand the point of this thread if we were where man city were such as 3-5 points from 6th place.

yeah, what ever norman

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:46
On the verge of something special

Sas, I dont know why you even get into arguments when you're so poor at them.


sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 10:49
On the verge of something special

pointless trying to suck me into a bite. atleast try to keep it football related then it might work.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 10:50
On the verge of something special

Hang on, maybe he has a point here, I thought Wigan we're only one point off top 4, not three.

Let's see whether it's Champions League or just Uefa for them first.

Norman_Knobsock Posted on 25/02/2008 10:50
On the verge of something special

Give over Sas, a man who ends a debate with "whatever" is clearly floundering.

kermit Posted on 25/02/2008 10:55
On the verge of something special

Alves aint had enough time on the pitch to be able to show what he can do, one thing i do wonder is though...

We get a free kick on the edge of the box, surely our new £12m striker who claims his speciality is free kicks, should have taken that free kick. Instead, up steps Rochy to blast it into the wall as he usually does.

I even thought Stewy could have taken that as Reina left a lot of space, must have had a lot of faith in his wall as he was virtually on the other post.

Anyway, players generally need time to adjust to a new league, because he hasn't came off the bench and bagged a hat trick considering the 0 chances we've created for him, people seem far too quick to say he needs to change his game.

Against Fulham he played up front on his own against a 10ft monster and his mate while we just played out the remaining minutes aiming not to concede. He looks a bit nervous or shy at the minute, once he gets some confidence in him from a goal or whatever am sure he'll be flying given time.

Now Ali's gonna miss the next 3 games am sure he'll be given more minutes on the pitch.

Just hope those 2 sloppy goals at Anfield aint knocked the momentum out of some of our players, 2 massive games this week, a win against Reading and I reckon that will put an end to thoughts of relegation.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 10:57
On the verge of something special

No I'm not implying he can do the same thing, you talk some absolute bollox sometimes...most of the time. Let me clarify this for those people who have the inability to comprehend the meaning of a sentance. I am not saying that Southgate is about to turn Boro into a side that wins league titles.

What I am saying is that Southgate is still in the early stages of getting HIS team together, that this team can get better than it currently is. Hence grounds for optimism.

The general trend is upwards. The average age of this team (outfield) is 24ish, so they can grow and mature together. Compare that to the Smac team that finished 7th, that was mainly thirty-somethings (JFH,Parlour, Mendi, Boat, Gate, Ugo) and everything was downwards after that. This is the opposite end of the spectrum.

The fact is Sas your talking/writing absolute bollox. You have an inability to interpret the written word, thats a fact.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 11:02
On the verge of something special

So Boromart, are we top 4 or not?

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 11:03
On the verge of something special

onthemap, your CONSTANT sarcastic comments do your arguments zero credance, 0 out of 10 for debating skills. Still at least your not bottom of the class on your own, you have your idol Sas to keep you company.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 11:06
On the verge of something special

"The fact is Sas your talking/writing absolute bollox. You have an inability to interpret the written word, thats a fact."

Yeah, go check the league table to see how far away we are from 6th!
now how many goals is aliadiere going to get again?

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 11:11
On the verge of something special

It's sarcastic to suggest I'm not quoting word for word from the opening post.
Bandy agreed with the top 4 claim, is he sarcastic?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 25/02/2008 11:16
On the verge of something special

We are playing good football in some games. In others we are poor. We need to crack a bit of consistency and we need a good striker before we can even consider being a top half team. Alves might be that man, he might not. There is no way he can be judged as a footballer on the evidence we have seen so far.
We are yet to eclipse the McClaren team of downing, zenden, mendieta, hasslebaink and Viduka.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 11:20
On the verge of something special

map, he actually said "at times yesterday we looked, and this is no exaggeration, like a top 4 side.". So he didn't say we were a top 4 side, or were abouyt to be one. He just implied that the team is starting to take shape. So your not quoting word for word, you are infact misquoting to suit your negative argumentative persona.

But I would temper that by saying that we looked like a top 4 side when we battered Chelsea 3-0 and Manure 4-1 a couple of years ago....but we weren't.

Sas, what has the lague table got to do with your inability to understand my sentance about Fergie saying its 4 1/2 years to build your team? Bollox all, again you fly off in some obscure and meaningless direction.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 11:21
On the verge of something special

it always make me chuckle when boro mart says other people talk bollox.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 11:25
On the verge of something special

what has the league table got to do with your inability to understand my sentance about Fergie saying its 4 1/2 years to build your team?


onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 11:38
On the verge of something special

Boromart - the following are all direct quotes - cut and pasted.

"25 years never been so optimistic"
"The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant."
"like a top 4 side."
"a joy to behold."
"catapult us into the top 8 and better"
"passionate, high intenisty slick passing football."
"When was the last time we went to Anfield and played them off the park like that?"
"verge of something special"
"with this team will achieve great things."

Then along came Bandy the impressionable with:

"Finally someone who shares my opinion"

Which bit is me being sarcastic or argumentative again?

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 11:47
On the verge of something special

"Which bit is me being sarcastic or argumentative again?"
You claim you are not being sarcastic/argumentative, and your defence is quoting other people! Very, very odd, logic isn't your strong point is it.

Here are some of YOUR quotes that are both sarcastic AND argumentative...
- "In the league we are abysmal, there's no debate, look at the table"
- "Is the table upside down? Deluded."
- "Only the same Ali that's fired us into the top 4 Sas"
- "Can we not stop all this bickering now we're top 4? Some people are never happy, I bet Wigan aren't complaining because they're one point off top 4."
- "So Boromart, are we top 4 or not?"

If you don't agree with people and you express it by being argumentative and sarcastic your view will have zero credance to most people. On the other hand if you would like to come back with some well thought out reasoned debate people might respect your viewpoint once in a while.


onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 12:00
On the verge of something special

Boromart, if you can't handle direct quotes being cut and pasted from the very post you're defending, then how can you possibly contemplate debate?


Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 12:07
On the verge of something special

onthemap, I'm not defending his post whatsoever. In fact if you had bothered to read my posts you would see that I am far from entirely agreeing with him.

Here are some direct quotes from me showing that I do not entirely agree with him...
"I think the thread title and initial post is a bit OTT"
"we need to be a bit more clinical up the top end"
"we still need a couple of players, another striker would be nice, a CM with pace, a proper right-winger, a leftback, and a reserve CB. If we get those 5 in then I think Southgate will have the squad he wants and one that can finish top half."

So I think my stance on the original post is quite clear, it's OTT, but I agree with the sentiment that if we keep moving in this direction then we can be a top half side. The fact is we are playing like a side not far behind the UEFA cup spots at the on current form. Maybe thats because most of our players are fit, at the beginning of the season we had an injury crisis and we struggled. Bottom line is the squad is too small for a sustained run in hte league...unless we get lucky like Reading last season or Villa this year, and manage to go the whole season with only 1 or 2 injuries.

One last itme YOU quoted still_stood to prove your not sarcastic/ argumentative. I posted YOU to prove you are. Here they are again, which of these are not sarcastic/argumentative?
- "In the league we are abysmal, there's no debate, look at the table"
- "Is the table upside down? Deluded."
- "Only the same Ali that's fired us into the top 4 Sas"
- "Can we not stop all this bickering now we're top 4? Some people are never happy, I bet Wigan aren't complaining because they're one point off top 4."
- "So Boromart, are we top 4 or not?"

Posting someone elses quote doesn't prove anything about you, other than a lack of self-analysis.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 12:15
On the verge of something special

Boromart, you need to develop the capacity to truthfully address a post as ridiculous as the opening one on this thread.

Why not just be honest, say that the post is ridiculous, then there'd be no need for sarcasm.

Until you can do that, then frankly you are just as ridiculous as the utter guff posted.


bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 12:22
On the verge of something special

"'Unfortunately the boo boys will soon stop that when they break up the duo in the centre'

So they're picking the team are they? You mustn't think very highly of Southgate."

Players themselves react - hopefully positively to the idiots, but usually the opposite . . . . .

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 12:24
On the verge of something special

map, I can make my own mind up, and I think there is a kernel of truth in the initial post, I just think he is getting very carried away (don't selectively quoting this to say I agree with the original post, you will be wasting your time). You however like sas can only see the negative in the original post, you can't see the motivaion behind it, instead trying to pick at it by over-analysing and disecting. You feel the need to ridicule others, usually through sarcasm. Thats not debate, it's just a bit sad.

You talk about truthfulness? Well sarcasm, your forte, is the act of telling untruths as a method of discrediting someone. While you continue down that line then quite frankly you are a ridiculous caricature.

Bernie_was_right Posted on 25/02/2008 12:24
On the verge of something special

Grantus is a tool.

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 12:25
On the verge of something special

"at times yesterday we looked, and this is no exaggeration, like a top 4 side"

what exactly is wrong with that statement. Those that were at Anfield will probably all agree. The key here is to read the sentence clearly which onthemap has trouble doing

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 12:31
On the verge of something special

BWR, good point.

Bandy, some on here feel some need to disect peoples sentances to look for ways of discrediting them, especially when it is a positive statement. I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with one or two of our board personas.

One of the things that makes me optimistic is that this is a really inexperienced squad. I guess there are differant ways of measuring that, but for me a good indication is 150 premier league starts (4-5 years as a regular starter). I reckon 3 players fall into that category Schwarzer, Young an Boat. the others are still learning the game in general or the english game. So they can and should be better players next season.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 25/02/2008 12:36
On the verge of something special

They'd certainly have fun teaching you how to hold a conversatiom boromart. You're incapable of making a point without arguing.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 12:39
On the verge of something special

says teh person who appears on the thread with an argumentative tone to his first post. No change there then. I'm surprised you haven't been banned since the new board started.

Compare that to my post at 9:05 which expressed my opinions without any arguments, in contradiction to your sad vindictive remarks. Go away cyber-stalker.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 12:42
On the verge of something special

So essentially, Rocky, Arca, Pog, Huth, Gon, Ali and Downing are still learning the game, that's your argument?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that statement is. Sas was right, absolutely spot on, you mocking others on here is farcical.

Rocky, Arca, Pog, Huth, Gon, Ali and Downing are still learning the game - beggers belief!

Maybe Mendi is still learning that's why he doesn't get a start (sorry slipped into sarcasm mode there).

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 12:45
On the verge of something special

I see dumb and dumber are at it again.

I stand by all my original points by the way. If you want to exagerrate my points and take them out of context thats your choice. I think anyone with half a brain cell can see what i was trying to get across.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 12:50
On the verge of something special

so you selective pick a handful of players and you think you are making some sort of valid point?

Rocky, he has only recently come to terms with the english game. Arca is learning a new position, Pog is still learning yes, Downing is still learning, he still has a little bit of physical growing to do.

Huth and Ali are definitely still learning, they have started less than 100 games between them. You gain experience on the field and become a better player for it. To claim they are both now at the summit of their powers seems extremely short sighted to me. Players tend to peak around 26-30. Maybe a little older for CBs 28-32. Very few of our players are past that and a lot are still short.

Of course you failed to mention players like Wheater, Shawky, Tuncay, Clattermole, Taylor, Grounds, Alves, Johnson. Who are all either young or new to the prem and have to gain the experience of playing there.

You have just proven that you selectively disect statements (and facts) in a poorly fashioned attempt to 'prove' a negative point.

mat_evans Posted on 25/02/2008 12:51
On the verge of something special

Map and Sas are totally missing the point of the thread, stood on the holgate and the rest are saying this team has potential that we've not seen for a long time, they're not particuraly basing their arguement on current form or league standings which you are. Quite petty really.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 12:51
On the verge of something special

talk about over the top comments in the opening thread!

"The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant. "

"We are playing passionate, high intenisty slick passing football. "

" We are undoubtedly on the verge of something special with this team."

"Gareth Southgate has got us playing in a manner which should not only catapult us into the top 8 and better but also ensure that the fans are entertained week in week out."

We arnt actually playing that well, take the blinkers off. only 2 games stand out all season and that is arsenal and birmingham,. games like fulham and wigan we started off well but the game ended up scrappy. can you list how many outstanding games this season we have had where we have entertained and fully controlled a game?


still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 12:53
On the verge of something special

You must lead a very unfulfilling sad lonely life Sas. If you won the lottery you'd whinge you had too much money. You have my pity.

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 12:56
On the verge of something special

sas, I think you are losing the plot mate and I'm beginning to wonder why you go to the game? Honestly

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 12:58
On the verge of something special

yeah i do lead a sad lonely life, but whats that got to do with saying people are going over board on things. why get personal? lets get back to your points. can you list all the games where hgave entertained and really looked a team going places. Ilike i said i can only think of arsenal, birmingham. you will have to back up your comments with evidence of games where we have looked the part.

bandy, can you then list the games this season which suggest we are going places? i've jsut looked at our results this season and only 2 games stand out as already mentioned

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 13:01
On the verge of something special

Boromart - guess what? I didn't mention Wheater, Shawky, Tuncay, Clattermole, Taylor, Grounds, Alves, or Johnson because yes, they are still learning the game, but apart from Wheater, aren't even first team choices yet.

Please don't use the argument that everyone is still learning, that's not the context you're using.You could argue Beardsley is still learning with that argument.

Huth doesn't have the games under his belt because of injury, Ali doesn't figure because he can't score.
Saying that, Ali is one of our most experienced players this season, in terms of starts, and has scored what - 3?
Are you saying he has learning difficulties?


Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 13:05
On the verge of something special

"can you list all the games where hgave entertained and really looked a team going places" -- but there are plenty of games where we have shown great pasign sequances, strong defence, and dangerous movement. It's not always 90 mins, but there are 30 mins here and there where it has been good. that is why the general consensus is that things look good for the future, rather than things look good right now.

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 13:05
On the verge of something special

Sas, you over analyse too much. I could list only a handful of games this season where we've played poor football which is a massive imporvement on previous seasons where we havent been so good in most games. I cant understand how you fail to see that we are heading in the right direction. It must have been brilliant when Rioch, Todd, lennie, Robson and McClaren were here. I think under Gareth we are playing the best football we've ever played and yes, that includes when Juninho was here with ravanellie because in all honesty we were pish away from home in them days and juno barely got a kick away from home

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 13:07
On the verge of something special

map that is the weakest argument you have put forward yet. As I previously stated, hardly anyone outfield is on the downard curve. Most of our players are still before their prime.

Do you not agree that 26-30 is a players prime, other than CBs who tend to be at their best for a few years past. Oh and Keepers.

If so then you cannot argue that our players have teh potential to improve. It's a simple question, a simple straight answer would be appreciated.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:15
On the verge of something special

"The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant. "

"We are playing passionate, high intenisty slick passing football. "

" We are undoubtedly on the verge of something special with this team."

"Gareth Southgate has got us playing in a manner which should not only catapult us into the top 8 and better but also ensure that the fans are entertained week in week out."

They are the comments i made as you have so empahatically made a point to show. They do not say that we have been brilliant all season do they? Correct me if i'm wrong but those comments suggest that we played some great stuff against Liverpool which included passionate high intensity slick passing football. Due to this i am convinced that we are on the verge of something special with this team. Should we continue to play in this manner we will be top 8 no problem and the fans will be entertained week in week out.

Now i'm in no doubt you'll twist my comments again to suit your argument so i'll let you get on with it. Alternatively you can cheer up, wipe that miserable scowl off your face, put your dummy back in and enjoy the performances that your team(well supposedly anyway) are putting in on the pitch.

I live in hope.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 13:26
On the verge of something special

Boromart
At least mines an argument, simply saying that all our players have the potential to improve isn't worth the efort it takes to type. Every player has potential, using your logic DGL and Ali will score 40 goals next season.

It's pathetic resorting to what a player or team is going to do next season or the one after.
When your footballing wisdom is shown to be simply naive you resort to the - potential quotes, the consolidation seasons, and now this "the players are just learning the game" rubbish.
Southgate is capable of making mistakes, look at DGL, but the difference is, he's capable of admitting he makes mistakes, you feel some inbuilt need to deny them.

This started out as a set of ridiculous over the top quotes after a defeat, read that again, a defeat, and has become even more ridiculous as the self appointed footballing scribes have tried to defend the nonesense.

Out with it, we're having a bad league season, or have all the other teams got players who aren't learning anymore?

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 13:26
On the verge of something special

I'm somewhere in the middle on this one. I think the initial post is over optimistic and others over pessimistic. There is little doubt we have improved since the begining of the season - we had to !

I believe the best we can hope for is around 10th/11th.We still lack the consistancy, squad depth and quality to kick on to a much higher position - Gibson alluded to this type of sentiment with his brutal analysis of our financial standing against many other Prem clubs.

As for players improving - if only that was so easy!For me there are very few managers who improve players greatly - Wenger,Ramos,O'Neil,Fergie, and Moyes being the leading contenders. I look at young Taylor and for me he's gone backwards!

So a reality check needs to be taken by both sides - cos we are about as high as it will get - unless we have major -and I mean major investment.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 13:31
On the verge of something special

You allude that you are not some sarcastic moronic idiot, yet you fail to answer a simple question I posed directly to you. I'll give you one last chance to prove yourself as a person whose feet are in the real world....

"Do you not agree that 26-30 is a players prime, other than CBs who tend to be at their best for a few years past? "


sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:31
On the verge of something special

still_stood_on_the_holgate, so can you list the games that back up your initial comments then?Its not difficult.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:32
On the verge of something special

HOS - I disgaree, It is possible to get into the top 8 without major financial investment. A good team ethic, playing the game in the right way and young hungry players gives you a great chance in my opinion. Just throwing money at a team doesnt guarantee success. We cant compete financially so we're trying to compete the only way we can which is with potential. Buying young players with potential, foreign players who could turn out to be something special and investing heavily in youth development is the only way a club like ours can match the top teams. We have to take bigger gambles than the bigger teams.

Critical_Bill Posted on 25/02/2008 13:33
On the verge of something special

Christ. All this getting carried away because we scored two goals at Anfield against a below par Liverpool team.

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 13:36
On the verge of something special

I'm dealing in facts you're dealing in hope and conjecture - I know what I feel safer with.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:37
On the verge of something special

Sas - Which initial comments? You tell me the ones you want to use to suit your argument and i'll do my best to help you undersatnd the logic. I think your getting yourself confused. My comments, quite clearly by the way, refer to the teams performance against Liverpool. They dont refer to any previous games. Surely this is clear? The comments like "the way we played yesterday" and "at times yesterday" should have pointed you in the right direction!!!

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:38
On the verge of something special

HOS - your not dealing with facts at all. Your saying its not possible to break into the top 8 without major investment. Show me a fact that backs your "opinion" up.

Didnt think so.

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 13:39
On the verge of something special

So on your analysis of one game where would you place your optimisim after the Sheff Utd game ?

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 13:39
On the verge of something special

some people have major issues in giving any form of praise and would prefer to see us playing long ball football in division two. Cant really remember the last time we competed so well at Anfield and actually tried to play them at their own game. For me that was refreshing but I suppose the opnes that are moaning now werent even at Anfield and are judging the performance on 15 minutes of footage on match of the day. Even hansen said Boro were excellent, what more dya want?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:40
On the verge of something special

as suspected your comment are based on 1 game this season. in which we actually lost and made a few costly mistakes.

Jesus, imagine how you will react when we win a game. I can understand if we beat a decent team. for example like arsenal at home..etc

sometimes i wonder if boro fans know what a good team really plays like

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 13:40
On the verge of something special

Blackburn and Bolton have both broken the top 8 in the last couple of seasons without major financial investment. Everton before that.

Top 4-5 is now gone. but 5-8 is possible, but hard.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:41
On the verge of something special

"as suspected" [:D] nothing gets past you does it Sherlock. Pity it took you about 20 posts to figure it out.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:42
On the verge of something special

i knew what you were on about and taking the pish cos we actually lost the game..duurrr

we arnt actually playign that well this season. only tonked 1 team upto know and struggled to finish teams like fulham and wigan off.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 13:42
On the verge of something special

Boromart, try to understand this one point:

Guisborough Town have a number of players who are aged 26-30, yes they are in their prime. However I for one would not expect them to be good enough now, nor the 20-25 year olds to be good enough when they hit that magical age, to propel Guisborough to the Premiership.

It's about the player, not the age. Think on that. Or do you want Towns number to pass onto Gareth?

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:42
On the verge of something special

Yeah of course you did.

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 13:43
On the verge of something special

So we don't have a small squad do we?
We don't lack consistancy don't we?
We have the quality to go onwards and upwards do we?



With the exception of the third point (which I accept is subjective) the others are facts.

And Gibbos comment is a clear sign that we can't compete with the leading teams

Critical_Bill Posted on 25/02/2008 13:43
On the verge of something special

Bandy, we came close to beating them 3 years ago, only a Gerrard wonder goal denied us.
So the first time in three seasons that we've played well against Liverpool is reason to get carried away?

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 13:44
On the verge of something special

"we arnt actually playign that well this season. only tonked 1 team upto know and struggled to finish teams like fulham and wigan off."

we beat Fulham and Wigan sas.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:45
On the verge of something special

think what you like, i maybe thick but not that thick or are you so thick you hadnt sussed i was takign the pish?

never laughed so much at soemthing like "The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant"...3-2 defeat and 2 defensive mistakes. take tuncay and downing out and the rest werent that good. do you have low standards or something?

bandy.yes ofcourse we beat them but we couldnt finish them off. they were scrappy 2nd halfs. like i said how many teams have we beat comfortably this season?

its all like the 2nd season under smac where people beleived the hype that the football weas tremendous and breathtaking

Bandy Posted on 25/02/2008 13:46
On the verge of something special

Bill, we had one shot that day after nine minutes and it went in. The rest of the game was spent camped down at the kop end waiting for the inevitable. Saturday was a lot different. We actually attacked the kop from the first minute and gave them a game

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 13:46
On the verge of something special

Boromart
Are you going to ignore that his season has been one long relegation battle, bit like the last one was?

bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:46
On the verge of something special

We tonked Liverpool on Saturday - shame were were so benevolent to give them a couple of goals to keep Benitez in a job - shows how good we are that we can afford to do that though

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:47
On the verge of something special

Small squad? I dunno, you should know if we do or dont as youve stated it as fact that we do. What areas are we short in like? Left back? How does our squad size compare to that of other teams?

Lack consistency? Well we were unbetaen in our previous 8 before saturdays unlucky defeat and even then we played well so at the moment i do think we're rather consistent.

Gibsons comments alluded to competing with the top 4 or 5 clubs. I'm sure he thinks we can make the top 8 or he wouldnt be here.

So no facts really, just opinions from both of us. Try not to present your opinions as facts in future. it'll save a lot of time.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:51
On the verge of something special

Sas - you are truly beyond help. I wouldnt bother going to the games any more. Your clearly in an unstable frame of mind which is worsened by your attendance. I bet you talk to yourself aswell.

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 13:53
On the verge of something special

We have been consistant since the New Year true. Before that ? I look at the full picture not a selective window.If we had shown consistancy we still wouldn't be amongst teams fighting relegation.

Oh and to be patronising will do little to gaining much respect and acknowledgement of your opinion.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:54
On the verge of something special

calm donw mate, you are the one with daft comments

"The way we played yesterday was quite brilliant"

"but at times yesterday we looked, and this is no exaggeration, like a top 4 side"

you make it sound we taught liverpool a lesson in football and beat them!!think about it!

obviouly still pished!

bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 13:55
On the verge of something special

Things went downhill when we lost Arca through injury - now people are slating Arca even though we're playing really good football

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 13:57
On the verge of something special

"Are you going to ignore that his season has been one long relegation battle, bit like the last one was?" -- depends what you call a relegation battle. We spent 6 days in the bottom three, thats hardly entrenched in it is it.....and what matters is where you finish. Reading have NOT spent most of the season in a relegation battle, would you prefer to swap places with their supporters? On another note Spurs have spent most of the season entrenched in a relegation battle, does that make them a bad team and there seasona right off? nope.

I said 12-14th at the start of the season. I'll stick by that. We are showing signs of being at the top end of that scale.

Third time lucky? Straight answer please....

Do you not agree that 26-30 is a players prime, other than CBs who tend to be at their best for a few years past?


still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:58
On the verge of something special

Mr unstable - The majority on here must be P***ed aswell then. Enough said.

HOS - well its easy to select a timeframe to back your comments up. I think due to the fact that i'm talking about recent performances it would suggest that i'm atlking recent and not the start of the season but hey ho make your own assumptions.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 13:59
On the verge of something special

Its getting boring now.

Have fun being gloomy.

Ta ta.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:00
On the verge of something special

"Mr unstable - The majority on here must be P***ed aswell then. Enough said."

Me unstable? spot on my friend [:D]
who says the makority think the same have you done a poll? what about the other 25,000 fans?

next you will be saying we were unlucky not to win the uefa cup.

some people are easily please and have low standards i suppose


onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 14:01
On the verge of something special

No
It depends on the players ability not his age. Is that clear enough for you?

Second time of asking, is it the age or the ability that matters?

Holgateoldskool Posted on 25/02/2008 14:01
On the verge of something special

The season lasts for 38 games ! Whilst a good run is encouragable you - or anybody else -can't write off the previous games !

I said I was in the middle on this one - that is based on the whole season!

Whilst encouragement can be taken Saturday was a defeat - so I can't get into this life is so wonderful mode when we got absolutely zilch from it (points wise)

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:01
On the verge of something special

i look forward to aliadiere reaching the 26-30 bracket so he can get 10-15 goals a season..i do i mean another goal a season?

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 14:04
On the verge of something special

Third time Boromart, is it the age of a player or the ability that matters?

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:07
On the verge of something special

BM: "Do you not agree that 26-30 is a players prime, other than CBs who tend to be at their best for a few years past?"

OTM: "No."

You will argue that night is day won't you. You will fly in the face of conventional footballing wisdom to try and prove yourself right.

If you seriously disagree that the majority of players are in there prime between 26-30 then your dafter than I thought.

Your guisborough town example is so off the wall it's daft. Those 28 year old GT players are better players now than they were at 22, because they are stronger physically and have better experience to draw upon. The same can be said of our 20-25 year olds, regardless whether you think they are S***. If they are S*** then Southgate must be a genius because he has got more points than nearly half the other prem managers from this S*** bunch of players.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:11
On the verge of something special

both. A players ability changes with age, due to experience and physical changes. Are you saying our under 26 year olds have no ability? Like I said, that must make southgate a genius.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 14:14
On the verge of something special

I'll stick with players who have the ability thanks mate. You keep the dross who fit into your age brackets.

You're not Howard Wilkinson are you Boromart?

Critical_Bill Posted on 25/02/2008 14:14
On the verge of something special

Boromart, to suggest that players get better as they get older is bollox.
There are a few so called 'wonderkids' who quickly end up ploughing around pitches in the lower leagues.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:17
On the verge of something special

lee sharpe and alan smith are example so fplayers who were better when they were under 26, what about alan moore?

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 14:19
On the verge of something special

The majority of players improve with age until they peak between the ages of 26-30 and then start going downhill.

Of course there some exceptions to the rule but thats all they are, exceptions.

To suggest anything else is completely ludicrous and flies in the face of recognised footballing knowledge.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:20
On the verge of something special

what happened to riggot once he hit the 26-30 bracket?

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:20
On the verge of something special

bill, I'm not gonna spell out word for word every post. I said that the generally course is that a player reaches his peak at 26-30. Of course this doesn't apply with all players, but it is accepted as the norm. If that is the case then the majority of our players will fall into that category. We only have one outfield player who is now on the downwrd curve part of his career.....Boat (2 if you count Mendi who was not given a squad number and hasn't played 1 minute of football). Compare that to our best finish under Smac...we had Coops, southgate, Doriva, Ugo, Jimmy, Parlour, Mendi all 30 or older. Viduka and Boat turned 30 during that season.

Our current situation is much healthier, more sustainable, and allows our players to grow together, learning each others game, and peak together. It might not work out like that, but at least having a young squad affords us the chance to try and get them to learn to play together. The core of this squad could consistently play together and understand each others game inside out during the next 4 or 5 seasons.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 14:22
On the verge of something special

Hence the term exception.

look it up.

mickbrown Posted on 25/02/2008 14:23
On the verge of something special

Bless you all - Boro for the Champion's League.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:23
On the verge of something special

maybe some current players will fall into that bracket too?

JigSaw Posted on 25/02/2008 14:24
On the verge of something special

Christ, sas has the worst debating skills in the world.

"sas you're haircut is crap"

"yeah but so's yours"

"nah I think mine is the height of fashion, I got it done at Toni and Guys"

"yeah but I once had a dog so mines better"


Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:24
On the verge of something special

I'm not even goign to discuss individual players, it's easy to pick examples, they are just the eception that proves the rule. Players peak between 26-30 I could pick 50 examples for each of yours, but that would be a waste of time. If you think your smarter than all footballing experts then good luck to you, everyone knows a players prime age but you.

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 14:25
On the verge of something special

Maybe "some" will. However the majority wont and therin lies the reason you are wrong.

mcikbrown - i know it the anniversary in a few days but stop this bitterness!!!

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 14:25
On the verge of something special

"The core of this squad could consistently play together and understand each others game inside out during the next 4 or 5 seasons."

Nah. They'd F*** off if we went down.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:25
On the verge of something special

come on JigSaw, stop making it personal and stick to football.
i know i won an arguement over you yesterday but lets keep it football

"Maybe "some" will. However the majority wont and therin lies the reason you are wrong."
can you tell me the lottery number too?

still_stood_on_the_holgate Posted on 25/02/2008 14:26
On the verge of something special

So they'll be together for 4 or 5 years then.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 25/02/2008 14:27
On the verge of something special

'what happened to riggot once he hit the 26-30 bracket?'

He was always only a very average footballer, carried by Southgate.

JigSaw Posted on 25/02/2008 14:27
On the verge of something special

With me? I've never argued with you. I don't see the point as you don't have the ability. You have a woman's logic.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:27
On the verge of something special

"So they'll be together for 4 or 5 years then."

get real most decent footballers move on after 2-3 years. see woodgate,yakubu,zenden and viduka

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:33
On the verge of something special

"The CORE of this squad COULD consistently play together and understand each others game inside out during the next 4 or 5 seasons."

There are two important words in that sentance sas, which you seem to have ignored because thats what you do. You take words and phrases out of context until you can come up with some stunningly stupid conclusion.

Do I need to spell it out further sas or do the highlights make it clear?

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 14:41
On the verge of something special

you seem to think that players stay at clubs for 4-5 years. a lot of players will move on in that time. just look at the team 5 years ago.

JigSaw Posted on 25/02/2008 14:49
On the verge of something special

You mean the team of old players? The main reason why he said this team could play together for 4-5 years is because they aren't ageing.

Dear me, you've roped me in. I'm supposed to be writing an essay but I find your twisted logic to be worse than heroin.

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 14:56
On the verge of something special

yes players move on, but we seemt o have fostered a decent team spirit and unit, which should help keep them. Some of them are local, again helping to keep them. Tak Downing as an example, undoubtedly a very decent player, undoubtedly a very sought after player.....he knows more about the inner workings and ambition of the club than you or I...he has chosen to stay.

As long as we show ambition, and show improvement then I don't see why the CORE won't stay past 2 or 3 years.


bear66 Posted on 25/02/2008 15:01
On the verge of something special

The most positive thing is that the team appears to really want to play for the Boro and are working hard for 90 minutes. I'm not convinced that has been the case for some time. It feels a bit like the late 80s squad in that respect, with a lot more class.

sasboro1 Posted on 25/02/2008 15:03
On the verge of something special

"Dear me, you've roped me in. I'm supposed to be writing an essay but I find your twisted logic to be worse than heroin."

haha! you can always tell when you lose it you come out with daft things and start hurling insults.

It sonly natural players come and go like in any job. some players get better offers, some players get forced out. some players want to leave when they lose their place. rarely do you see no players come and go over a 5 year period.

JigSaw Posted on 25/02/2008 15:09
On the verge of something special

I haven't lost it sas I'm just getting upset with myself for being drawn in. I hate a lack of logic which is why lasses' get on my tits. You do the same. No hard feelings like [:)].

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 15:10
On the verge of something special

Sas: "rarely do you see no players come and go over a 5 year period." -- Sas, I clearly posted "The CORE of this squad", I am 100% certain that several players will go during the next 5 years.

What I am alluding to is that I feel we are in a position were we can keep a CORE of them, get them used to each others game and keep them during some of their best years. The focus on our summer purchasing was firmly on a certain age group, players that can grow with us, that was stated on several occassions, and appears to have been a good decision. It was the only sensible decision after seeing lots of money spent on 30 somthings in the past. If southgate had signed a bunch of 30 somthings like Smac or Robbo then there would be zero chance of keeping a core of them for 5 years.

OPEO Posted on 25/02/2008 17:44
On the verge of something special

Huth. Just fo mappy.

onthemap Posted on 25/02/2008 17:53
On the verge of something special

*Awaits Look North with dread*

Boromart Posted on 25/02/2008 17:53
On the verge of something special

yeah map, so is southgate a genius if he has got our S*** squad up to 12th? Thats our S*** squad of players who against all the laws of nature will not improve with experience and better physical condition that comes naturally as they reach the perfect physique:experience ratio?