permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/1619332
ridsdale Posted on 28/12/2009 11:14
China to execute Brit?

Personally I am against capital punishment.

But do we have a right to expect brits get special treatment abroad?


"A British man found guilty of drug smuggling in China has been told he will be executed on Tuesday morning.

Akmal Shaikh, from London, has reportedly been told by his family that he faces death in the next 24 hours.

The 53-year-old has denied all knowledge of the 4kg of heroin found in his possession in the remote north-western city of Urumqi in 2007. "


Link: BBC

dave42 Posted on 28/12/2009 11:15
China to execute Brit?

should be worldwide

drug smuggling = execution

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 11:16
China to execute Brit?

He knew the rules.

The Chinese authorities don't píss about with human rights, because there are non. If you can't take the punishment then don't do the crime.

gazza444 Posted on 28/12/2009 11:17
China to execute Brit?

the guy is menatlly ill and should not be executed.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 11:19
China to execute Brit?

His legal team have been trying to say he's mentally ill etc etc.

Respect the countrys laws and there isn't a problem, wish we were ruthless.

IsaacHunt Posted on 28/12/2009 11:19
China to execute Brit?

Well his lawyers would say that wouldn't they?

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 11:24
China to execute Brit?

Those who commit crimes and "plead" their innocence because they were under the influence of drink, drugs or both, píss me off.

Nobody makes them take too much alcohol or drugs, it's their informed choice and shouldn't become a mitigating circumstance.

gazza444 Posted on 28/12/2009 11:27
China to execute Brit?

shouldn't become a mitigating circumstance, = wrong. I am not condoning drink or drugs but people do act differently than normal so it has to be mitigating.

mr_maz Posted on 28/12/2009 11:27
China to execute Brit?

every doctor that has spoken to him has said he suffers from bi-polar disorder.

He flew to china under the assumption he was being made into a international pop star, the people that arranged from him to go to china even had a single recorded for him.

The guy is mentally ill and needs medical attention not execution.

wherestheremote Posted on 28/12/2009 11:31
China to execute Brit?

Ask yourself whether you would be aware, or not, if you were carrying 4 bags of Tate & Lyle in your luggage [:O]


Link: Sugar

ridsdale Posted on 28/12/2009 11:34
China to execute Brit?

Stephen Fry has bi-polar disorder, he doesn't go around the world carrying 4 kilos of heroin.

Hardly an excuse is it?

BoroPhil Posted on 28/12/2009 11:35
China to execute Brit?

jesus wept, some of you are harsh XXXXXXs, the guy obviously is not well, and you would happily see him executed? humanity ftw



Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 11:37
China to execute Brit?

What's the answer? Rehabilitate then execute him?

Genghis_Khan Posted on 28/12/2009 11:38
China to execute Brit?

Drugs are killing society, one life to slow it down won't make too much difference.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 28/12/2009 11:39
China to execute Brit?

Drugs are killing society, one life to slow it down won't make too much difference.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 11:50
China to execute Brit?

"I am not condoning drink or drugs but people do act differently than normal so it has to be mitigating."

Then don't do it.

We are responsible for our own actions, and if we take substances which affect our judgement, then we must prepare for the likely consequence.

bigrichardthe3rd Posted on 28/12/2009 12:05
China to execute Brit?

he was ready to spread missery on china,,,hang the drug dealing fffoookkkerrr,one less on our streets[smi]

BoroPhil Posted on 28/12/2009 12:10
China to execute Brit?

drugs are killing society? are you proposing we execute the executives of alcohol distributors as well then?

AlBoro1984 Posted on 28/12/2009 12:11
China to execute Brit?

China even have mobile execution vans, I don't think they're going to give a XXXXXX if UK likes this or not.

They make arab states such as Saudi Arabia seem like champions of human rights.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 12:14
China to execute Brit?

Alcohol is not illegal.

Drinking whilst under the influence is, and that's why the majority of people don't drink and drive. They know the rules, no smoke and mirrors conspiracy, and suffer the consequences if you disregard the law.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 28/12/2009 12:16
China to execute Brit?

Borophil prisons are full of drug not alcoholics. When I worked in Holme House, 87% of inmate crime was drug related.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 12:19
China to execute Brit?

I've lived and worked in Khartoum, Sudan, possibly the poorest country in the world.

Rich, white, Westerners would be a prime target for the locals, but crime is almost non-existent. Why?. Because the punishments are so severe, and I've never felt safer walking the streets. Oppressive regime, maybe, but the Sudanese have their own rules and it works for them.

piston_broke Posted on 28/12/2009 12:31
China to execute Brit?

"A British man found guilty of drug smuggling in China has been told he will be executed on Tuesday morning.

Akmal Shaikh, from London,


[rle] hmmmmmm.....is anyone else thinking what im thinking [?][?] [;)]

Genghis_Khan Posted on 28/12/2009 12:32
China to execute Brit?

If you're thinking, phuq him then yes[ref]

susy Posted on 28/12/2009 12:35
China to execute Brit?


Sea Harrier said "We are responsible for our own actions, and if we take substances which affect our judgement, then we must prepare for the likely consequence." That is correct when we are actually dealing with a fully functional mind. This guy was vulnerable and was duped into thinking that he was going to be made a popstar, he was sent to China with lots of stuff including this package and no doubt told what to say if questioned. He was caught with the stuff on him yes but he is nothing but a pawn in a rich mans game. No one cares about him.

If he took these drugs into the country with full knowledge then he should suffer any consequence but this is different, the guy had no knowledge or appreciation of what he was doing.

I heard his daughter being interviewed this morning, her dad is very ill and has no idea that he is due to die in the morning. He has no clue that the death penalty has been handed out to him. If China goes ahead with this then I believe they are wrong and will do harm to their international relationships.

Scrote Posted on 28/12/2009 12:40
China to execute Brit?

"Borophil prisons are full of drug not alcoholics. When I worked in Holme House, 87% of inmate crime was drug related."

erm... that's because being an alcoholic isn't considered a crime

i visited a prison once and it was full of people who'd broken the law - not cub scouts - funny that...

i'm against the death penalty as a rule - my only problem with this story is that the family that are squealing so loudly are the same family that let him go to china to be a pop star in the first place

somethings not quite right - i reckon there's a lot not being reported

BoroPhil Posted on 28/12/2009 12:42
China to execute Brit?

genghis I hate to break this to you...but alcohol is a drug


IsaacHunt Posted on 28/12/2009 12:43
China to execute Brit?

"the guy obviously is not well,"

Thats because you choose to believe it. Is he really?

piston_broke Posted on 28/12/2009 12:44
China to execute Brit?

Lets all stop going to our local chinkys as a protest [^]

Scrote Posted on 28/12/2009 12:47
China to execute Brit?

"Lets all stop going to our local chinkys as a protest"

don't be so XXXXXXin' stupid

it's chow mien night tonight [:D]

mark7171 Posted on 28/12/2009 12:49
China to execute Brit?

piston_broke

watch yourself, you'll have splendid stuff on your case for saying 'chinkys' [;)]

piston_broke Posted on 28/12/2009 12:50
China to execute Brit?

ya could always have a parmo or indyan 2nite [:D]

piston_broke Posted on 28/12/2009 13:07
China to execute Brit?

mark...... sorry, technically it should be chinkies shouldn't it? [:D]

mark7171 Posted on 28/12/2009 13:07
China to execute Brit?

[:D][^]

gazza444 Posted on 28/12/2009 13:14
China to execute Brit?

tell me what will be achieved executing a mentally ill man?

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 13:16
China to execute Brit?

Nothing.

Chinese rules in China, not UK.

Tony_Devlin Posted on 28/12/2009 13:19
China to execute Brit?

A good old fashioned 16th century British family name[^].

Tony Devlin

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 13:20
China to execute Brit?

Hang your heads, advocating the killing of a mentally ill man.

What about concentrating on catching drug traffickers who consistently use unwitting victims as mules.

Absolutely shameful.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 13:25
China to execute Brit?

Rules are Rules.

It's up to China to decide, if they think he is guilty then that's that.


Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 13:28
China to execute Brit?

I don't think anyone on here has suggested that a mentally ill man should be executed. It wouldn't happen in the UK, but the Chinese have a different set of rules, conditions and consequences.

Why did his family allow him act as a drug mule? Maybe because the reward would be good for the risk if not caught.

I am totally against capital punishment, but can't legislate for other countries attitudes towards drug smuggling. The advice must be not to do the the crime if you can't do the time, or subsequent consequences.

Vosene Posted on 28/12/2009 13:31
China to execute Brit?

He has never been to the doctors with mental illness before, they think he has bipolar because a doctor read some of his emails and talked to his family, the doctor was not allowed to see him in china.
His daughter couldn't answer why he was in Poland before for so long and how he was keeping himself afloat financially, it appears to be a futile attempt to get a guilty man free to me.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 13:36
China to execute Brit?

China are sending out a message "Don't attempt to bring drugs into our country, you know the consequences if caught".

That is why it should be a universal message for all governments/countries.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 13:48
China to execute Brit?

So this guy who thought he was off to China to record a song in order to bring about world peace was in actual fact a coherent member of society well aware he was carrying heroin.

Well you learn something every day, no absence of doubt in this case then and apparently Chinas human rights record backs that up.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 13:50
China to execute Brit?

That's the way it is in China, unfortunately for him.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 13:51
China to execute Brit?

And you are a Doctor who can diagnose mental illness from press reports.

My only hope is that he gets Geordie Joe off number 1 spot.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 14:03
China to execute Brit?

I'm with the Swiss, Norweigans, Dutch, etc, who were having this debate over 100 years ago and decided that killing people was regressive, counter-productive bullXXXXXX. It just so happens that these places have, by all available measures, the greatest personal wellbeing and life satisfaction in the world.

Innocent people are frequently freed from UK jails after serving prison terms they shouldn't have. That's in this "do gooder state" we live in, what's the chance that the backward thinking haven of human rights abuse that is China doesn't get it wrong occasionally?

Can't let them out and say sorry when they're dead can we?

The Chinese authorities originally indicated that they were willing to let a local doctor assess him but this was later refused.

Reprieve with the assistance of the FCO also sought permission for Dr Peter Schaapveld, a forensic psychologist, to see the Akmal and paid for him to pay for him to fly to China but upon arrival he was denied access to Akmal, no explanation as to why was given.

At his appeal hearing on 26 May 2009, which coincided with Dr Schaapveld's visit Akmal insisted on reading a long, rambling and often incoherent statement to the Court, despite being strongly advised by his lawyers not to. Dr Schaapveld was not permitted to attend this hearing and Embassy staffs were not allowed to take notes.

Around the same time Reprieve obtained hundreds of e-mails that Akmal sent the British Embassy in Poland when he was living there. There are hundreds of pages of materials, many of which are rambling, incoherent and in 72 POINT FONT, reflecting what was probably his manic phase at the time.

Although Dr Schaapveld was unable to meet with Akmal he spoke to Embassy staff while visiting China, they also provided him with witness statements from people who knew Akmal as well as the e-mails sent to the Embassy in Poland. Dr Schaapveld concludes that "the evidence clearly points to the fact that Mr. Shaikh was and/or is suffering from a severe mental disorder".

Jonny
Which part of that would suggest I'm claiming to be a Doctor and anyone has diagnosed his illness from press reports?

If you took the time to think instead of filling your vacuous head with Daily Mail articles one you'd have something to offer the forum.

BoroPhil Posted on 28/12/2009 14:06
China to execute Brit?

I bet if his name was John Smith, some of you would be a bit more sympathetic.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 14:18
China to execute Brit?

The fact your post states he's mentally ill.

Executing people is wrong in our eyes because that's the way by which we live, in other countries it's different and you have to respect that and be aware of your actions.

It looks like his only know diagnosed condition is high blood pressure. Can't find a link to say he has a confirmed mental issue.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 14:37
China to execute Brit?

"Executing people is wrong in our eyes because that's the way by which we live,"

Speak for yourself, executing people is wrong in my eyes full stop.

"in other countries it's different and you have to respect that and be aware of your actions"

Numerous despots have passed laws and executed within their own countries boundaries insisting on the execution of the mentally ill, I didn't agree with it in wartime Germany and I don't agree with it now.

You stand on the side of the fence that advocates Chinas despicable human rights record, I'll try to keep on the other side if that's ok with you.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 14:43
China to execute Brit?

That's the whole point O_T_M. This chap has been found guilty of a crime in a country that has a poor human rights policy. That will deter others and that is exactly the effect that the statement proffered by the Chinese government wants broadcasting worldwide.

Edit: The Chinese drug trafficking philosophy works as there are much fewer drug users, per capita, than all other Western societies.

This chap is really unlucky to be caught in China, as many other countries would show greater leniency.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 14:45
China to execute Brit?

Would you not like to see Peados and 100% nailed on convicted murderers be executed for their crimes? I know I would.

Save the state a few quid and make the world a better place.

I searched google for links to the story, his family state he wasn't himself yet didn't stop him going to Poland? Doesn't seem right. If his family GP who last examined him came out and said he had a mental illness then fair enough, I think breaking the patient privacy law would be ok in this instance.


onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 14:48
China to execute Brit?

Sea Harrier
You think it's fine to execute a mentally unstable man so China can send a message out!

Personally I've no interest in any message that despicable country sends out and certainly not one advocating that.

Jonny
I'll post it again, you either didn't/couldn't read it or ignored it:

"the Chinese authorities originally indicated that they were willing to let a local doctor assess him but this was later refused.

Reprieve with the assistance of the FCO also sought permission for Dr Peter Schaapveld, a forensic psychologist, to see Akmal and paid for him to pay for him to fly to China but upon arrival he was denied access to Akmal, no explanation as to why was given.

At his appeal hearing on 26 May 2009, which coincided with Dr Schaapveld's visit Akmal insisted on reading a long, rambling and often incoherent statement to the Court, despite being strongly advised by his lawyers not to. Dr Schaapveld was not permitted to attend this hearing and Embassy staffs were not allowed to take notes.

Around the same time Reprieve obtained hundreds of e-mails that Akmal sent the British Embassy in Poland when he was living there. There are hundreds of pages of materials, many of which are rambling, incoherent and in 72 POINT FONT, reflecting what was probably his manic phase at the time.

Although Dr Schaapveld was unable to meet with Akmal he spoke to Embassy staff while visiting China, they also provided him with witness statements from people who knew Akmal as well as the e-mails sent to the Embassy in Poland. Dr Schaapveld concludes that "the evidence clearly points to the fact that Mr. Shaikh was and/or is suffering from a severe mental disorder".

red_shamrock Posted on 28/12/2009 14:49
China to execute Brit?

If it had been a Heroin dealer in Teesside he might have got 12 month, and then on release he may have been dealing to your kids friends etc.

And he might just live in your Posh street or own a business you may use.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 14:53
China to execute Brit?

No shamrock, he'd be a mentally ill mule used unwittingly by drug traffickers.

Maybe if your kid's visit China one day and are unwillingly a victim of this (it does actually happen and not just to the mentally ill) you'll advocate killing them in the nearest execution van?

See I can put totally inappropriate arguments forward too.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 14:53
China to execute Brit?

I'll post it again, you either didn't/couldn't read it or ignored it:

Couldn't read it????? Mappy in look at me I want a reaction shocker!

[:O][:O][:O][:O][:O][:O][:O][:O][:O][:O]

The fact that when you type, answering to another post, you can't see when something is updated on the thread obviously means I can't read.

The high and mighty has spoken.

glosboro Posted on 28/12/2009 14:54
China to execute Brit?

I say give the bloke a chance, let him record his pop song and if it does turn out to be crap pull the lever.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 14:56
China to execute Brit?

No jonny, your argument seems to be that a local GP didn't provide evidence.

He, nor any other, were allowed to.

Let me know when you get it - post a row of smileys or something if words fail you.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 14:58
China to execute Brit?

Can someone ring me and let me know what the above post says.........[rle]

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/12/2009 14:59
China to execute Brit?

Mappy,

"You think it's fine to execute a mentally unstable man so China can send a message out!"

No, I haven't said that or indeed do I advocate that. You are twisting my words to suit your argument. I suggest that you read my replies again, with an open mind.

My stance is that the lad is unfortunate as he has broken Chinese draconian laws, and they don't mamby-pamby around. For the record I don't condone capital punishment and don't want this chap executed. However this situation is totally beyond my influence.

gibosgimp Posted on 28/12/2009 15:01
China to execute Brit?

mmmm i wonder how many local businessmen would get ther necks strecthed,,,,,[^][^][^][^]

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 15:01
China to execute Brit?

I've never mentioned local GPs providing evidence. I mentioned his family GP making a statement about his conditions before he left for Poland.

If he was as bad as his family make out why on earth did they not stop him or bring him back from Poland? Surely he was a danger to himself then?


br14 Posted on 28/12/2009 15:06
China to execute Brit?

"erm... that's because being an alcoholic isn't considered a crime"

I'd have thought it was more likely to be because addicts are prepared to do anything in order to feed their addiction, and so end up thieving or whatever.

As for China. They're probably killing him so he can't identify the government official running the drugs ring.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 15:06
China to execute Brit?

From a guy in Beijing now:

"Just saw this thread, thought I would give my 2 cents.

I'm actually in Beijing right now for Xmas with my mother who works for the FCO and have been getting quite a bit of info on this case and I just wanted to say that it is as heart breaking as it sounds for everyone involved.

The man is definitely mentally ill and didn't know what he was doing however the Chinese authorities couldn't care less. Their foreign minister wouldn't even accept a call from ours to discuss the issue and people at the embassy have been working over Christmas and the weekend trying everything to save him.

It boils down to the fact that the Chinese just don't see us as an important nation anymore and therefore our requests for clemency are falling on deaf ears because there is no political incentive. He will definitely be killed.

Bunch of c**ts."

The Chinese don't give a toss about their own citizens, they're not going to listen to foreigners.

You lot will get your wish. Have a great New Year.


red_shamrock Posted on 28/12/2009 15:08
China to execute Brit?

Thing is Jonny if the blokes not right, his family may have needed the break for want of other words.

Mental age and state are factors, surely a stay of execution must be had and his mental health and well being determined.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 15:09
China to execute Brit?

I must have missed the part where we've all wished him dead.


onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 15:11
China to execute Brit?

Jonny

No you just forgot typing it:

"Respect the countrys laws and there isn't a problem, wish we were ruthless."

red_shamrock Posted on 28/12/2009 15:12
China to execute Brit?

We must have some say they still rely on us


Link: Cheeky B@RSTEDS

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 28/12/2009 15:14
China to execute Brit?

So me wishing the UK had a hardline approach can be translated into wish that fella is executed?

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 15:17
China to execute Brit?

Yes when you post on a thread discussing the very subject.
What were you implying, that Ali should be more ruthless in front of goal?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 28/12/2009 16:08
China to execute Brit?

Id be very surprised to find out that drugs were behind the majority of offences in holme house. Maybes its different on teesside.
Having worked on parole hearings for around 3 years Id say the vast majority of crimes are committed undr the influence of alcohol. All the really nasty ones, from violent offences & murder to paedophillia. Drugs crimes would tend to be burglarys and the like. I can only remember one lifer being inside for a drug related murder, and that was a schitzo who was on acid.
that said anyway, having read about the fella he sounds like a right mental case. Ive seen plenty of people locked up in this country when they should be in hospital. people who have part of their brain missing who are locked up as our metal health services are a joke etc etc. To execute him is a scandal.

adelfsmitler Posted on 28/12/2009 18:41
China to execute Brit?

the fella he sounds like a right mental case......is this a medical term for mental illness?

boronutter Posted on 28/12/2009 18:51
China to execute Brit?

you pay your money,you take your chance!!!!deserves all he gets comin g im afraid,those drugs wreck peoples lives,as someone said above,i wish this government was as strict.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 18:52
China to execute Brit?

hence the username

ridsdale Posted on 28/12/2009 18:53
China to execute Brit?

He must be a bit of a nutter if he thought at the age of 53 he was going to win the Chinese X Factor.

adelfsmitler Posted on 28/12/2009 18:53
China to execute Brit?

but there would be less local business men in middlesbrough........

RenzoRosso Posted on 28/12/2009 19:03
China to execute Brit?

There is a certian amount of Ire here when one csiders that heroin was pushed through the balkans by the soviets in the 50's as a cold ware statagie aimed at destabalising western society and government. here we are and the last major comunist state cathes a British guy bringing the same drugs in/out and he gets the chop there with the statement from the Chinese readig that he could kil 26000 people with his gear. That was the point right?

SidSnot Posted on 28/12/2009 19:07
China to execute Brit?

It's terribly sad. 53 year old man suddenly becomes drug smuggler is a bit of a stretch to buy into. Besides, he could hardly have a network to sell 4kg of heroin so was clearly a mule. Executing mules and small time dealers is hardly the way forward. If you're going to execute anyone, then at least let it be the big distributors.

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 19:07
China to execute Brit?

It makes me wonder sometimes whether Rob's employed a gaggle of chimps to debate.

br14 Posted on 28/12/2009 19:12
China to execute Brit?

"We must have some say they still rely on us"

Fascinating post.

That is actually hilarious. The Chinese have reserves into the trillions of dollars, growth even during the downturn in double figures, a balance of payments surplus of enormous proportions and the UK government provides them with aid.

Why?

RenzoRosso Posted on 28/12/2009 19:13
China to execute Brit?

It says he was homeless in Poland, if thisis the case how on earth did he end up in china? Sounds very sad all round

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 19:16
China to execute Brit?

Sick and shameful is what it is.

adelfsmitler Posted on 28/12/2009 19:17
China to execute Brit?

hold this mate......i`ll get it off you later,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[^][^][^][^]

maxi_levey Posted on 28/12/2009 19:20
China to execute Brit?

What time does he get his last takeaway [?]

adelfsmitler Posted on 28/12/2009 19:22
China to execute Brit?

noodles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a million mile of um.....

onthemap Posted on 28/12/2009 19:26
China to execute Brit?

His mistake was not having a Boro tatto on his neck and not coming from Normanby.

Those salt of the earth types would have had you lot arranging a charity match.

adelfsmitler Posted on 28/12/2009 19:28
China to execute Brit?

did he drive there in a ice cream van?

dodger Posted on 28/12/2009 19:31
China to execute Brit?

Maybe Gordon Brown and co will go hardline on this and impose trade sanctions....

Ahh well... he's not rich , china means £££s

He dies.

ridsdale Posted on 29/12/2009 01:32
China to execute Brit?

60 minutes and counting down.....


His song has been on telly news.


Deffo something missing on the top floor...



onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 01:36
China to execute Brit?

There are a few on here proud of this.

ridsdale Posted on 29/12/2009 01:39
China to execute Brit?

Do you think though, that we have the right to impose our laws/punishments on another nation?

Or do they have the right to determine their own punishments?

br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 01:47
China to execute Brit?

"Do you think though, that we have the right to impose our laws/punishments on another nation?

Or do they have the right to determine their own punishments?"

Are you serious? If they're big and powerful enough they can do what the hell they want.

China has 1.3 billion people. More industry than anyone else. More liquid cash than just about anyone else. An army 7 million strong. And a growing defence industry with nuclear capability.

When Gordon Brown speaks China couldn't give a monkeys.

You can tell them to get lost, but then who would make your tellys, radios, pack your food, recycle your waste, and just about anything else you care to buy.

The only reason they listen to the US is because the US owes them so much money.

When Obama said he was going to bail out the banks, where do you think he got the money from?

onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 01:48
China to execute Brit?

Yes I do think we have the right to ask that the mentally ill are not killed, wherever they find themselves.

Hitler disagreed.




br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 02:00
China to execute Brit?

Ask away OTM.

Something tells me China won't be listening.

As I mentioned earlier, there's probably a Chinese official or two on the make.

Or maybe China just wants to make a point.

onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 02:07
China to execute Brit?

I know that China won't listen, that won't stop me from asking though.

Sometimes I feel a little less proud to be human, let alone English, this thread is incomprehensible as far as I'm concerned.


Only_Me Posted on 29/12/2009 02:13
China to execute Brit?

"
Id be very surprised to find out that drugs were behind the majority of offences in holme house. "

Perhaps you are forgetting, or are unaware then, that many offenders have to become repeat offenders in order to gain entry onto a prison drugs programme.
I know people who have been specifically advised to commit further crimes, in order to rack up the points in order to be given a treatment programme as part of their sentence.
Make absolutely no bones about it, drugs are a scourge on society. Anyone who has ever known the effects on families and the users of drugs, would have possibly have little time for those that would seek to defend those who in any way, shape, or form promote the use of drugs.

As for this guy in China, sorry, just like the likes of the young girls that get sent on all-expense paid hols to Jamaica and other such places and are then surprised to find themselves in prison and expecting our government to bail them out, should know better by now and I for one, find it very difficult to find any sympathy for anyone caught being a mule.

How many potential deaths, is there in 4K of heroin, btw?
How many families might that have caused undue and severe distress to? ( That includes the families of the users as well as their victims of crimes)

As for this guys family claiming he has mental illness, well isn't bi-polar disorder just another name for manic depression? It's not Alzheimer's, Autistic spectrum, or another disorder which could have severe affects on the patients ability to differentiate between right and wrong and which would therefore, be a mitigating factor.

br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 02:26
China to execute Brit?

The original question was "do we have a right to expect brits get special treatment abroad?"

The answer is only if the nation we're visiting has signed up to the various agreements covering foreign travel and criminal charges etc.

Doesn't mean there isn't sympathy for the plight of this guy, but he has to be judged under Chinese law (for what it's worth).

I recall hearing of a situation recently, where a Chinese citizen was so frustrated with his treatment by the local police he walked into a police station and shot everyone he could find.

Bizarrely the Chinese public actually supported the guy because they understood his frustration.

If they don't provide justice for their own citizens, why should we expect a Brit to get better treatment.

stevethepup Posted on 29/12/2009 03:00
China to execute Brit?

Its breaking news on Sky. His death sentence has been approved by the Chinese Supreme Court. No reprieve now

onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 04:09
China to execute Brit?

Ignorance doesn't speak or kill for me.

br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 04:16
China to execute Brit?

Just been on the radio that the FO confirmed the sentence has been carried out.

There's something behind this other than the obvious. Did Brown say something nasty about China after the climate conference or something?

onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 04:27
China to execute Brit?

Ashamed.. really wh

Not my idea of humanity

Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 06:47
China to execute Brit?

Mappy,

You must come to terms with the fact that not everyone will agree with your every point of view. Maligning those who have a different opinion and viewpoint to your own, is very much a common practice of yours.

The salient points of this are:-

1. Nobody contributing to this thread wished this chap dead.
2. When visiting another country people must respect the laws and rules of that country, and live by them or suffer the consequences.
3. Why should a British national get a different form of justice to a Chinese citizen?
4. Human Rights issues are very controversial in China, with very few special cases. The Chinese executed directors of the manufacturers of contaminated baby milk and that wouldn't have happened in the West.
5. Why didn't this chaps family take better care of him initially?

RIP Akmal Shaikh, a victim of circumstance.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 29/12/2009 07:45
China to execute Brit?

Take solace in the number of life's saved by the removal of a drug mule, willing or not.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 29/12/2009 08:33
China to execute Brit?

only me - im well aware of the drugs problems in prison.
what people dont seem to be aware of is the immense problems alcohol causes, and its far greater effect than drugs.

As for the guy being homeless - thats why he got picked. they will always look for truely desperate people to smuggle drugs.

my advice to anyone tempted to smuggle drugs into this country is don't. If you must commit a crime try raping someone, or murder, you'll do far less time, as they are considered less damaging to the economy.

BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 08:36
China to execute Brit?

you really are a XXXXXX genghis.

and sea_harrier, no-one in this thread wished him dead? there's one for you right there.


The_Dude Posted on 29/12/2009 08:43
China to execute Brit?

[V]executed for carrying drugs


just shows how unevolved the chinese race still is, they are a terrible race of people, who use draconian punishments

no doubt murderers and paedophiles get community service


Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 08:59
China to execute Brit?

BorPhil,

"and sea_harrier, no-one in this thread wished him dead? there's one for you right there."

I'm not sure that I understand what you have written. Could you explain in a little more detail please.

The_263 Posted on 29/12/2009 09:10
China to execute Brit?

Respect the laws of other countries.

Been to China many times and the degree of discipline on the streets has to be admired.

"just shows how unevolved the chinese race still is, they are a terrible race of people, who use draconian punishments"

Don't see the Chinese government killing many of its soldiers in Afghanistan for the sake of being a US show pony.

r00fie Posted on 29/12/2009 09:15
China to execute Brit?

263 = [^] spot on.

BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 09:16
China to execute Brit?

read the line above that one s_h


BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 09:31
China to execute Brit?

I hear the nazis were quite good disciplinarians as well, anyone admire them?

Jimmythemoonlight Posted on 29/12/2009 09:39
China to execute Brit?

Been to China many times and the degree of discipline on the streets has to be admired.

degree of discipline=Marshal Law. However his Bi-polar "Mental Illness" was no excuse.He knew the score.[rle]

The_263 Posted on 29/12/2009 09:40
China to execute Brit?

Discipline is very good in high performing schools.

nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 09:42
China to execute Brit?

"the guy is menatlly ill and should not be executed."

He has NO previous medical record of mental illness, so hence has never been diagnosed. He smuggled over 4kg of H into china, that is enough to kill nearly 30,000 people and cause untold misery to others.

No sympathy sorry.

flaps Posted on 29/12/2009 09:48
China to execute Brit?

Don't agree with the death penalty but if you're daft enough to smuggle drugs into/out of a country with the death penalty for that crime you don't deserve any sympathy - even when you do suddenly decide you're mentally ill.

BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 09:48
China to execute Brit?

Hmm.


Link: No evidence of mental illness whatsoever iirc

Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 09:49
China to execute Brit?

BoroPhil,

"read the line above that one s_h"

That's gone way over my head too. Just write what you need to convey to me.

nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 09:50
China to execute Brit?

Hmmm..

"Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he was "appalled and disappointed". But the Chinese Embassy said Mr Shaikh had no previous record of mental illness."

clag01 Posted on 29/12/2009 09:56
China to execute Brit?

that is enough to kill nearly 30,000 people and cause untold misery to others.

Yeah but at the end of the day if somebody chooses to use then they get whats coming to them.

The_263 Posted on 29/12/2009 09:56
China to execute Brit?

Why is Gordon Brown "appalled and disappointed"?

Is it because China are trying to reduce the drug smuggling and power of the Afghan warlords?? More hypocrisy from Brown.


nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 09:59
China to execute Brit?

clag01

Stupidest post of the day

nope sorryy this one wins

"They make arab states such as Saudi Arabia seem like champions of human rights."

clag01 Posted on 29/12/2009 10:01
China to execute Brit?

And why is that Nobbie?

nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 10:07
China to execute Brit?

"Yeah but at the end of the day if somebody chooses to use then they get whats coming to them."

So it's ok for a "metally ill" person to smuggle drugs but not for the "mentally ill" to take them? if they "get whats coming" why should the smuggler be shown leaniency?

clag01 Posted on 29/12/2009 10:16
China to execute Brit?

My brother died of an heroin overdose. He was not an addict...he used to do it once in a while...it was his choice...I dont hate the person who sold it to him...he didnt have to buy it did he?

nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 10:27
China to execute Brit?

sorry for your loss but the smuggler did not have to smuggle it either, it about taking responsibility for your actions.

piston_broke Posted on 29/12/2009 10:33
China to execute Brit?

Yeah but at the end of the day if somebody chooses to use then they get whats coming to them.........
And if someone smuggles drugs into a country with the death penalty for that crime they get whats coming to them !!

clag01 Posted on 29/12/2009 10:35
China to execute Brit?

Nobbie i see what your saying and im not trying to play the simpathy card here. Just dont do it folks...

borotmt Posted on 29/12/2009 10:39
China to execute Brit?

Its sad that anyone should lose their life for a greed crime but lets be clear on this, the family and the defence could not produce a single shread of evidence of any suggestion of "mental Illness" in this guys past.
Im against the death penalty.
Im also against drug dealers
Im also against lawyers who lie through their teeth in order to get a guilty individual off.
If you had a mentally ill relative would you not be slightly concerned about him travelling across the globe to china, by himself?[|)]

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 11:13
China to execute Brit?

have they done him yet? what time is he due to be topped?

nobbienuts Posted on 29/12/2009 11:18
China to execute Brit?

this morning

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 11:22
China to execute Brit?

what time like?

maxi_levey Posted on 29/12/2009 11:26
China to execute Brit?

He aint breathing no more.

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 11:27
China to execute Brit?

seriously, have they done him?

maxi_levey Posted on 29/12/2009 11:27
China to execute Brit?

ye 4am

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 11:38
China to execute Brit?

if he was so mentally ill how did he manage to find his way halfway round the world?

and pay for his travels?

Space_Face Posted on 29/12/2009 11:46
China to execute Brit?

Was there a past medical history of mental illness? was this shown to the Chinese authorities?

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 11:50
China to execute Brit?

No record of mental illness. The link to the Guardian website had no proof either, although it was no surprise that the apologist linked to, and believed, whatever that rag said.

ASH will be pleased as thats another person who`s packed in smoking at least. Every cloud


BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 11:54
China to execute Brit?

The point is ofc that the Chinese didn't even consider it:

"PHILIP ALSTON, UN SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR
We are informed that the initial conviction was based on a 30-minute hearing which would not seem to indicate due process or effective defence or presentation of evidence.

We are then told that in the appeal requests to present medical evidence, requests to the court that it should appoint an expert to assess Mr Shaikh were all rejected."

He never stood a chance.


Link: beeb

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 11:58
China to execute Brit?

He stood loads of chance. Like thousands of vistors every year. Don`t smuggle drugs in.

Not difficult really.

I bet I never get executed by the Chinese government for drug smuggling. Put any money you like on it!

Never stood a chance?? You`re joking aren`t you. Just having a laugh with us.


joshie Posted on 29/12/2009 12:06
China to execute Brit?

Legalise heroin the world over using the Swiss model for treatment of addicts, it seems to work and alleviates what is a terrible scourge on society in so many different ways.

BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 12:08
China to execute Brit?

ok, so are we now ignoring that he probably wasn't entirely responsible for his actions?

life must be very easy in your black and white world Rodney


Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 12:17
China to execute Brit?

Because some left wing rag says he is mentally ill you take it as a given?? There is absolutely no evidence that the man had a mental illness whatsoever.

The facts are simple. China carries the death penalty for smuggling drugs. The man was smuggling drugs. It`s dead easy not to be executed in China for smuggling drugs!!!!

If he was mentally ill why was he in Poland for years? Why was he travelling to China?? Who was funding his travelling?

Black & white?? Only in your world. The Guardian says its true so it must be.


BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 12:25
China to execute Brit?

Are you seriously trying to tell me the Guardian is the only media outlet suggesting he might have been mentally ill? Even the Mail is outraged ffs.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 12:33
China to execute Brit?

Nice question dodge! No basis of fact whatsoever.

No record of mental illness. Fact!

Caught smuggling heroin in a country which carries the death penalty for such a crime. Fact!

He was so ill that his family let him travel the world on his own having no contact for sustained periods?? Are you for real?

The Mail outraged?? Are you sure? Not from what I`ve read.




BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 12:36
China to execute Brit?

choking at you accusing someone of question dodging [ref]

The chinese didn't let him be assessed for mental illness. Fact!

That's all we need to know, to know it wasn't even a remotely fair trial. Fact!

See, I can do it too. Fact!




Space_Face Posted on 29/12/2009 12:39
China to execute Brit?

Was there behaviours displayed by him during his time in prison to warrant a Mental Health Act assessment? Did his family request one when he said he flying around the world to make a peace-bringing record?

Awesome song that, mind.

The_263 Posted on 29/12/2009 12:47
China to execute Brit?

I have around 40 Chinese immigration stamps on my passport and not once was I executed.

Phil, if you are adamant about barking for The Guardian I would suggest you use the fact that China (most of Asia actually) are extremely racist and consider blacks and those from subcontentient as lower than the low. Caucasian white are considered more superior, so I would guess that if this was a middle-class white western they'd be back home by now.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 12:48
China to execute Brit?

"choking at you accusing someone of question dodging "

Yet you`re still doing it?? [rle]

"The chinese didn't let him be assessed for mental illness. Fact

That's all we need to know, to know it wasn't even a remotely fair trial"

How old was he again?? funny how he only needed to be assessed for mental illness once he was discovered carrying heroin which could potentially kill thousands.

Keep reading your rag and taken everything they say as golden.

BoroPhil Posted on 29/12/2009 12:55
China to execute Brit?

Do you think he was treated fairly then Rodney?

Or do you think that anyone found with drugs should be just shot on the spot (which tbh is what they might as well have done)?


Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 29/12/2009 12:57
China to execute Brit?

He was treated by the letter of the law in the country he was in.


Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 13:34
China to execute Brit?

Fairly? He tried to smuggle drugs into a country which if he was successful would have brought misery to many.

I know the death penalty is enforced in China/Thailand etc and as such I wouldn`t dream of attempting to smuggle drugs into the country.

It`s like being scared of sharks. If you don`t go in the sea they aren`t going to get you! FFS!

flaps Posted on 29/12/2009 13:35
China to execute Brit?

Don't often do this but got to agree with Rodney on this one.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 13:41
China to execute Brit?

I`m going for a lie down flaps! [^]

red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 13:48
China to execute Brit?

Its a sin and a shame how we let people ..never mind mentaly ill people have to earn a few quid doing drugs wether it be dealing them or using them(invariably the users deal them for for habit).

Perhaps you buy cokie cola on a weekend or a bit of blow from your local soft kurnt, whoever this soft lad is, ends up selling heroin if theres a few quid in it(he needs his BMW or smart duds or his house in Coulby or Ingelby.

It wont happen to me I am rock n roll you say "ive done a bit" but dont now but you still fuel it.

Anyway feck my inane ramblings hes dead another victim you are glad to see the back of.

ON THE MAP... a human being and a good un.

Rodney I understand your feelings cruel old world isnt it..he was just another one you know.


StocktonStallion Posted on 29/12/2009 13:50
China to execute Brit?

Well done china for ridding the world of one less scum bag. Drug traffickers, pushers, dealers are all scum for the misery they inflict.

FFS, the liberals on this board need to stop losing sleep over scum. Go celebrate and have a chow mein...

Saying that I thought the song was quite good [:D]


LingdaleLegend Posted on 29/12/2009 14:01
China to execute Brit?


why isnt there all this hullaballo when the yanks pop someone

im sure they all claim mental disprders etc

52 exectutions this year, 1 per week

Executions in the United States in 2009
DATE
NUMBER
SINCE 1976
STATE
NAME
AGE
RACE
VICTIM RACE
METHOD
1/14/09 1137 TX Curtis Moore 40 B 3 Black Lethal Injection
1/15/09 1138 AL James Callahan 62 W 1 White Lethal Injection
1/21/09 1139 TX Frank Moore 49 B 2 Black Lethal Injection
1/22/09 1140 OK Darwin Brown 32 B 1 White Lethal Injection
1/22/09 1141 TX Reginald Perkins 53 B 1 Black Lethal Injection
1/28/09 1142 TX Virgil Martinez 41 L 4 Latino Lethal Injection
1/29/09 1143 TX Ricardo Ortiz 46 L 1 Latino Lethal Injection
2/4/09 1144 TN Steve Henley 55 W 2 White Lethal Injection
2/4/09 1145 TX David Martinez* 36 L 2 Latino Lethal Injection
2/10/09 1146 TX Dale Scheanette 35 B 1 Black Lethal Injection
2/11/09 1147 FL Wayne Tompkins 51 W 1 White Lethal Injection
2/12/09 1148 AL Danny Joe Bradley 49 W 1 White Lethal Injection
2/12/09 1149 TX Johnny Johnson 51 B 1 Black Lethal Injection
2/19/09 1150 VA Edward Bell~ 44 B 1 White Lethal Injection
2/20/09 1151 SC Luke Williams 56 W 1 Latino, 1 White Lethal Injection
3/3/09 1152 TX Willie Pondexter 34 B 1 White Lethal Injection
3/4/09 1153 TX Kenneth Morris 38 B 1 White Lethal Injection
3/10/09 1154 TX James Edward Martinez 34 L 2 White Lethal Injection
3/10/09 1155 GA Robert Newland 65 W 1 White Lethal Injection
3/11/09 1156 TX Luis Salazar 38 L 1 Latino Lethal Injection
4/15/09 1157 TX Michael Rosales 35 L 1 Black Lethal Injection
4/16/09 1158 AL Jimmy Lee Dill 49 B 1 Black Lethal Injection
4/29/09 1159 GA William Mark Mize 52 W 1 White Lethal Injection
4/30/09 1160 TX Derrick Johnson 28 B 1 Black Lethal Injection
5/8/09 1161 SC Thomas Ivey 34 B 2 White Lethal Injection
5/14/09 1162 AL Willie McNair 44 B 1 White Lethal Injection
5/14/09 1163 OK Donald Gilson 48 W 1 White Lethal Injection
5/19/09 1164 TX Michael Lynn Riley 51 B 1 White Lethal Injection
5/20/09 1165 MO Dennis Skillicorn 49 W 1 White Lethal Injection
6/2/09 1166 TX Terry Hankins 34 W 2 White Lethal Injection
6/3/09 1167 OH Daniel Wilson 39 W 1 White Lethal Injection
6/11/09 1168 AL Jack Trawick 62 W 1 White Lethal Injection
7/9/09 1169 OK Michael DeLozier 32 W 2 White Lethal Injection
7/14/09 1170 OH John Fautenberry 46 W 1 White Lethal Injection
7/21/09 1171 OH Marvallous Keene 36 B 2 White, 2 Black, 1 Other Lethal Injection
8/18/09 1172 OH Jason Getsy 33 W 1 White Lethal Injection
8/19/09 1173 FL John Richard Marek 45 W 1 White Lethal Injection
9/16/09 1174 TX Stephen Moody 52 W 1 Unknown Lethal Injection
9/22/09 1175 TX Christopher Coleman 37 B 3 Latino Lethal Injection
10/8/09 1176 AL Max Payne 38 W 1 White Lethal Injection
10/20/09 1177 GA Mark McClain 42 W 1 White Lethal Injection
10/27/09 1178 TX Reginald Blanton 28 B 1 Latino Lethal Injection
11/5/09 1179 TX Khristian Oliver 32 B 1 White Lethal Injection
11/10/09 1180 TX Yosvanis Valle~ 34 L 1 Latino Lethal Injection
11/10/09 1181 VA John Allen Muhammad 48 B 1 White Lethal Injection
11/17/09 1182 VA Larry Bill Elliot 60 W 1 White Electric Chair
11/18/09 1183 TX Danielle Simpson 30 B 1 White Lethal Injection
11/19/09 1184 TX Robert Thompson 34 B 1 Other Lethal Injection
12/2/09 1185 TN Cecil Johnson, Jr. 53 B 3 Black Lethal Injection
12/3/09 1186 TX Bobby Wayne Woods 44 W 1 White Lethal Injection
12/8/09 1187 OH Kenneth Biros 51 W 1 White Lethal Injection
12/11/09 1188 IN Matthew Eric Wrinkles 49 W 3 White Lethal Injection

onthemap Posted on 29/12/2009 14:01
China to execute Brit?

Sea Harrier
"You must come to terms with the fact that not everyone will agree with your every point of view. Maligning those who have a different opinion and viewpoint to your own, is very much a common practice of yours.

The salient points of this are:-" blah blah blah

Thanks for the lecture pointing out that I'm the one giving lectures maligning other points of view.

You're right in one instance only, I don't in any way wish to be associated with those believing this to be humane.

There's one way of viewing this, it's barbaric and no excuse exists.

I know which side of the fence I'm on and it's not with the scum trying to justify it in some way.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 14:05
China to execute Brit?

Justifying what otm?

The punishment for drug smuggling into China is death. It`s not a secret. They don`t hide the fact. They don`t want the filthy drug in the country and are trying to keep it out.

It`s really really easy not to be executed for drug smuggling in China. You don`t do it!




StocktonStallion Posted on 29/12/2009 14:06
China to execute Brit?

mappy - rules are rules. Its you trying to justify the wrongness of it.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 14:06
China to execute Brit?

Mappy,

"I know which side of the fence I'm on and it's not with the scum trying to justify it in some way."

Once again you use the word SCUM to identify those with a different view to yourself.

Give your head a shake, read the replies openly, and climb down from your white charger and recognise that your opinions are not always consistent with others.

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 29/12/2009 14:11
China to execute Brit?

Another scum off the streets.[^]

Well done China.[^]

red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 14:13
China to execute Brit?

Not supposed to perpetrate it in Teesside but SOME still do....oh no he only deals blow[rle]

ridsdale Posted on 29/12/2009 14:18
China to execute Brit?

Remember, the Brits have form when it comes to smuggling drugs into China.

"Opium, which was not prohibited in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, was smuggled by merchants from British India into China in defiance of Chinese prohibition laws. Open warfare between Britain and China broke out in 1839. Further disputes over the treatment of British merchants in Chinese ports resulted in the Second Opium War.

China was defeated in both wars leaving its government having to tolerate the opium trade. Britain forced the Chinese government into signing the Treaty of Nanjing and the Treaty of Tianjin, also known as the Unequal Treaties, which included provisions for the opening of additional ports to unrestricted foreign trade, for fixed tariffs; for the recognition of both countries as equal in correspondence; and for the cession of Hong Kong to Britain. The British also gained extraterritorial rights. Several countries followed Britain and sought similar agreements with China. Many Chinese found these agreements humiliating and these sentiments contributed to the Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864), the Boxer Rebellion (1899–1901), and the downfall of the Qing Dynasty in 1912, putting an end to dynastic China."

Hercules Posted on 29/12/2009 14:25
China to execute Brit?

I'm ashamed to be from the same species as some people on this thread.

I agree 100% with onthemap.

He sounds mentally ill to me from reports I've read, which is all I have to go on as the Chinese government wouldn't allow an examination.

Even if he had smuggled in a tanker full of heroin, its no excuse not to allow him a fair trial, appeal, a greater amount of time to lapse before commuting the sentence, knowledge of the sentence and an examination by a doctor. Regardless of where it occurs. If their laws allow this sort of thing to happen then they shouldn't, they should be more like this country.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 14:29
China to execute Brit?

There is no right or wrong on this thread.

Opinions have been expressed which are accepted by some, and rejected by others. There are no winners here, especially the unfortunate Akmal Shaikh.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 29/12/2009 14:32
China to execute Brit?

I read an internet article on the death penalty in China earlier. They are savages. People can be sentenced to death for tax evasion, bribery, corruption and drug dealing amongst other things. The usual method of execution is by firing a gun at the condemned man's head from point blank range. This is preferable to firing squad or lethal injection as it causes less harm to internal organs, which are then "harvested" and sold on for vast sums of money, often with high-ranking officials who need, or whose family members need organ transplants. The bodies of those execuated are usually cremated with families not being allowed access to them.

I'm against the death penalty per-se, as an argument I heard many years ago was "How would you like it if you were about to be executed knowing you were innocent?". I can understand states implementing when the crime is murder, but personally, I think life should mean life and you leave prison in a wooden box.

The Chinese are obviously very backward and blood-thirsty savages, as are a lot of Asian countries.

Hercules Posted on 29/12/2009 14:32
China to execute Brit?

No right or wrong?

Its wrong to kill somebody. Anybody. For doing anything at all.

Its wrong to convict somebody without a fair trial.

Its wrong to deny medical examination/treatment to somebody who could be mentally ill.

Of that, I'm sure.

Space_Face Posted on 29/12/2009 14:33
China to execute Brit?

'He sounds mentally ill to me'


[V]

JonMc Posted on 29/12/2009 14:34
China to execute Brit?

Have to agree with Mr. Harrier.

China's laws are China's laws and they are an extremely punitive country. We've seen a glimpse of what the Chinese common man has to go through on a daily basis. This poor sucker just happened to be standing in the path of the tornado.

Wrong place wrong time.

red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 14:35
China to execute Brit?

Lisbon Put a thread up earlier ...it doesnt work.

Hercules Posted on 29/12/2009 14:39
China to execute Brit?

At the minute my opinion is as good as anyone else's, unless you can point me to some sort of evidence of a medical professional expressing a view which contraditcs mine.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 29/12/2009 14:39
China to execute Brit?

No time for examination?? His entire life before he was found in possesion of a substance that destroys lives! Was he ever sectioned before he was caught? No.

Were his family so concerned for his welfare they kept him under close supervision? No. The bloke was travelling to all parts.

If he had managed to smuggle in his stash how many lives would it have taken?? 1? 2? 20?

Whether you agree or not with China`s stance on drugs one thing os certain. If you don`t try and take drugs into China you will not be executed for it. Simples.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 29/12/2009 14:40
China to execute Brit?

Hercules, in Chinese law it is right to execute a conviced drug smuggler.

In UK law it is not.

Simple as that really, this country is generally against execution. I don't believe it is right unless proven without a shadow of a doubt in the case of murder.


red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 14:41
China to execute Brit?

If taking illegal drugs was crime in this country how many would be guilty.

Pot/kettle

StocktonStallion Posted on 29/12/2009 14:43
China to execute Brit?

JonMc - are you mental. When is there a right place or right time to be smuggling a bag full of the white stuff.

The british government or his family have not appealed for his innocence of the crime - it is the punishment they are objecting to. He was caught red handed.


Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 14:46
China to execute Brit?

China's stance on drugs is punitive in the extreme, and I don't necessarily agree with that stance but I am not Chinese and I don't live in China. Those Chinese interviewed on the streets for BBC News agreed that the execution was the correct course of action. Their country, their rules.

The Chinese government won't be budged on many issues, drugs being just one, and that was highlighted by the tank driving over, and killing, the student in Tienenmen Square. Justice must be seen to be done for the rank and file on the streets of Beijing.

JonMc Posted on 29/12/2009 14:47
China to execute Brit?

I never said he wasn't guilty but I do believe that he had mental health problems and that he was a patsy.

But like I also said, the laws of China are there for all to see. There would be hell on if another country tried to dictate to us about how our law should be maintained so we can't do the same in this case and Chinese law.

Clearer? [;)]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 29/12/2009 14:50
China to execute Brit?

Rodney, as regards his mental state, the Chinese didn't even investigate that. They put the onus on him to provide evidence for this rather than allow an independent expert examine him. How ridiculous is it to suggest that a mentally ill person provides evidence of their mental state? Sounds like when they used to try witches hundreds of years ago.

If he was mentally ill, then in civilised countries, this is taken into account and the accused is deemed to have "diminished responsibility", and the sentence passed is usually more lenient.

red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 14:51
China to execute Brit?

Kin hell a bloke gets put to death as a courier.. it ends up in the UK, the dealer doesnt just specialise in Brown.. he deals the full range.

Lads on here have blow or coke or E dealt from the very same bloke and have the neck to say the courier deserved it.

You put the noose round his neck you sub human b@stards... what goes around.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 29/12/2009 14:52
China to execute Brit?

PCTFT,

Nail on head. "in civilised countries"

China has it's own rules which don't necessarily mirror ours in the UK.

Space_Face Posted on 29/12/2009 14:53
China to execute Brit?

Did his lawyers/family attempt to send evidence that he suffers bipolar to China? If, as said, it is known he has a mental illness there will be medical evidence in the UK.

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 14:59
China to execute Brit?

It was quioted there was no history of mental illness. Sounds like he was using it as an excuse, according to what was written.

zaphod Posted on 29/12/2009 15:04
China to execute Brit?

I'm amazed this guy got a Chinese visa. He was homeless with a Muslim name travelling to a city where Muslim Uyghurs were rioting earlier this year. How on earth did he get a visa?

I am opposed to the death penalty, but why is the country getting outraged about a guy who was guilty as charged, but not about more deserving cases?

ayresome_angle Posted on 29/12/2009 15:05
China to execute Brit?

Exactly mate, he wasnt so mentally ill he coudlnt sort his visa out was he

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 29/12/2009 15:05
China to execute Brit?

Fair enough ayresome angel, but they could at least have investigated it. Besides, two British record producers were of the opinion that he was delusional and (my words) that there was something not quite right about him.

Even so, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

JonMc Posted on 29/12/2009 15:06
China to execute Brit?

I suspect that he was coached into getting a visa by the same fellas who promised him a recording career in China.

red_shamrock Posted on 29/12/2009 15:07
China to execute Brit?

Just remember when your doing your next line or Popping your next pill.

You helped..nice people bollox

Thornaby_Boro Posted on 29/12/2009 16:16
China to execute Brit?

There are varying degrees of mental illness (1 in 4 in Teesside are said to have some form of it). This guy knew what he was doing.
This government's condemnation of another one which is implementing its own laws is pathetic.
Well done China for killing this scum.

adelfsmitler Posted on 29/12/2009 16:17
China to execute Brit?

1 in 4...that low?

Only_Me Posted on 29/12/2009 16:19
China to execute Brit?

" Besides, two British record producers were of the opinion that he was delusional and (my words) that there was something not quite right about him."


Surely the same could be said for about half of those that turn up to X-Factor and Britains' Got Talent, auditions?




Again with regard to the bi-polar disorder he was supposed? to be suffering from...

Symptoms

Symptoms include:
Depression

* Feelings of unhappiness that won’t go away
* Agitation and restlessness
* Loss of confidence
* Feeling useless, inadequate or hopeless
* Unable to think positively
* Can't concentrate or make even simple decisions
* Loss of appetite
* Sleeping problems including waking early in the morning
* Lack of interest in sex
* Avoiding other people
* Thoughts of suicide "

The onset of full symtoms happens in the teens or early adulthood.

2 points therefore...


1) Nowhere in the list of symptoms does it say, that the sufferer will not be able to distinguish right from wrong!

2) If full symptoms are evident from such an early stage, how come he had no previous history of it?


Obviously, I am only going by what I have managed to find on-line, so I'd be interested to hear from the psychiatric nurses of the board, who will have had more experience of this disorder, to see what their view is.

Only_Me Posted on 29/12/2009 16:36
China to execute Brit?

" only me - im well aware of the drugs problems in prison."


To be fair, that's not really what you said in your earlier post.


"what people dont seem to be aware of is the immense problems alcohol causes, and its far greater effect than drugs."


On the contrary, I think most people are well aware of the problems that alcohol can cause.
That there are still some idiots that insist on drink/driving is something of a disgrace and to my mind, penalties for such are way too low. Within families also, alcoholism can and does cause significant trouble, however, most people can and do drink sensibly/or not at all when driving.
I would venture however to suggest though, that for those in prison for drink related offences, that they are generally not there for burgling/mugging old people to pay for their fix, unlike a lot of those that are there for drug related offences. I think that is a major difference, don't you?


aa365 Posted on 29/12/2009 18:25
China to execute Brit?

well that puts a new slant on things[:D]

br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 18:35
China to execute Brit?

Of course it's inhumane and barabaric.

What I find amazing is that those complaining about the actions of the Chinese don't understand why they're "inhumane and barbaric".

60 years ago Mao came to power killing millions of people in his efforts to redistribute wealth.

The Chinese peasants lived in subhuman conditions. Tens of millions died of starvation between 1959 and 1962.

Even today there are many that live in poor conditions and China doesnt really have a welfare state as we know it - despite being communist.

In other words count yourselves lucky you live somewhere that can afford to be humane, and if you must travel to China, be aware of the consequences should you be unwittingly used as a drug mule.

It's only 150 years ago the British were pushing opium on millions of Chinese addicts, so we don't really have any moral high ground.

ridsdale Posted on 29/12/2009 18:46
China to execute Brit?

Apart from the low level, burglary, muggings, prostitution etc. Some horrendous crimes are commited here in the civilised West by both drug users and dealers. Many shootings and knifings are the result of drug deals.

We also regularly see armed and violent attacks on householders and businesses. Some of the most vulnerable of society are often the victims.

Yet, there are some who have the audacity to call the Chinese backward and inhumane.

Perhaps they want a safer society than many of our citizens enjoy?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 29/12/2009 21:29
China to execute Brit?

I know this shouldn't be funny, but this song is so bad, I defy you not to laugh.


Link: Come Little Rabbit

br14 Posted on 29/12/2009 22:10
China to execute Brit?

Backward? Not in a million years.

Inhumane. Probably.

I think the reference is to institutional inhumanity. I doubt you'd get too many Chinese arguing on that one (though most are so proud of their country you'd have to feed them a few drinks first).

However, nothing surprises me so far as the inhumanity of society in general.

When you're part of a population of 1.3 billion slowly rising out of abject poverty your main instinct is survival.

The simple solution to the drugs problem is to legalise possession of small amounts, control the drugs as with prescription medication and provide supplies and counselling for addicts. As is being done in some countries with significant success.

It won't happen in China for philosophical reasons. It doesn't happen in the UK for political reasons.

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 29/12/2009 22:15
China to execute Brit?

He wanted shooting for that, never mind lethal injection[^]

lazarus Posted on 29/12/2009 22:54
China to execute Brit?

dont know what all the fuss is about

china make their own laws and citizens and visitors are obliged to comply with them or face the consequences

sick of our government intervening on the behalf of britons who have committed crimes in other countries

china, rightfully, told us to get stuffed effectively

FunkyPotatoe Posted on 31/12/2009 15:38
China to execute Brit?

The Chinese 100% have the right idea, if you are banged to rights, have tried to smuggle drugs (which ruin many lives, not just that of the user) then you deserve to be killed.

Simple as that.

Stop the fuss.

This guy got what he deserved. I don't care if he thought he was going to be a pop star. Anyone who thinks smuggling drugs is a good idea has mental health problems.

I wish we had the same policy in this crappy country.

leroy_1_lita Posted on 31/12/2009 16:30
China to execute Brit?

How many replys has this got now must be one of the most ever?

rebel666 Posted on 31/12/2009 16:31
China to execute Brit?

[ref]