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Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:00
Appalling

There really isn't a lot to say about today.

I am 100% convinced that it was the right decision to get rid of Southgate because this is, effectively, his team. I was one of those fans that got sucked into believing we must have one of the better squads in the Championship. We don't. We have an imbalanced, shallow and, most importantly, poor set of players. That is Southgat'es legacy, no matter which way you cut it.

The signs were already there for me before this poor run but you have to say, Strachan hasn't improved anything at this stage. His honeymoon period is over now and results count. I don't think even he knew the size of the task that faced him.

I was hoping, that Strachan would get us throught to January still in touch but as things stand there is little chance of that. It's another season in this division next year, and it will be more difficult than this.

I still believe Strachan is the right man for us but he does have to show it and show it now.

We will see the extent of the club's ambition in January. Over to you Steve.

SplendidStuff Posted on 28/11/2009 17:02
Appalling

Adi this group of players was doing well enough under Southgate.

mwelolo Posted on 28/11/2009 17:02
Appalling

I think our current situation tells you all you need to know about the club's ambition.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/11/2009 17:03
Appalling

Adi, to be fair only Sheff U and WBA won away from home today.

I'm not condoning this result, and disappointed that we lost the lead twice, but it is another indictment that this team isn't good enough for promotion.

rick4974 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:03
Appalling

[^]

workonthedarkside Posted on 28/11/2009 17:05
Appalling

You say strachan has;nt improved anything ;yet you still say he;s the right man for the job;i still say if gibbo had;t been tight ;yes i repeat tight ;after we got compo for mclaren ;and he;d got an established manager we would;nt be in this situation now

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:05
Appalling

I don't believe our position would have been sustained. Scratch the surface and all of the problems we're now seeing were there.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 28/11/2009 17:06
Appalling

Workyerticket,

I think you have the comma lock on.

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:06
Appalling

You'll continue singing the "getting rid of Southgate was right" song until the cows come home won't you, Adi, in the face of all the evidence.
Is it because you find being catastrophically wrong hard to get to grips with?

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:06
Appalling

I agree woking. The reason I do not think Strachan is to blame is because this is the squad that Southgate put together and it is bloody terrible.

rick4974 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:07
Appalling

Darkside, you were right on Wednesday night too[;)]

boroboymike Posted on 28/11/2009 17:08
Appalling

Fear not.

in january we'll be signing a guy we've agreed to bring in for £3.5mil at centre back who's seen us win 2 in 11 since he arrived.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:08
Appalling

No borolad, it's because it's my OPINION. I didn't believe in Southgate and I think that him getting us relegated is good evidence that I was right.

Whether I am right about Strachan will be determined in the future. However, to blame him for our current plight isn't correct.

I know you have difficulty accepting that someone can disagree with you but I do. Try and live with it.

mwelolo Posted on 28/11/2009 17:09
Appalling

"You say strachan has;nt improved anything ;yet you still say he;s the right man for the job;i still say if gibbo had;t been tight ;yes i repeat tight ;after we got compo for mclaren ;and he;d got an established manager we would;nt be in this situation now "

Absolutely, that was when the ambition died.


Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 28/11/2009 17:10
Appalling

Its pure speculation to suggest we would not have sustained our run of good form under Southgate.

To blame him for Strachan's poor run of results is some claim; they are clearly good enough as a team to stay in touch with the top places and questions have to be asked why the form has slumped so dramatically?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 17:10
Appalling

28 games to go and 2 points off the play-offs. A bit of tweaking here and there and we can put a run together. Keeping clean-sheets needs to be Strachan's priority now, then hopefully Kitson and Lita will pinch us goals.

It's only Novemeber, no need for such doom and gloom just yet.

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:10
Appalling

I don't have any trouble dealing with you at all Adi.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 17:10
Appalling

[rle]oh dear, now adi has changed his mind now and its now a poor squad, whereas last week it was brillaint but being mismanaged


well, how amazing, under southgate we were a point off top and now we are several light years away, and you still comically suggest it was correct to replace southgate with strachan, even though every piece of evidence goes against it


boro74 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:11
Appalling

If we'd kept Southgate, and used the money that we are now paying Strachan to fund better players, then we'd now have more chance of promotion.

boromutt Posted on 28/11/2009 17:13
Appalling

Riggot in StLedger out another £4million pi**ed away by Southgate.

KobeB Posted on 28/11/2009 17:15
Appalling

Is dude lying again??

thornaboro Posted on 28/11/2009 17:16
Appalling

qpr,blackpool,cardiff,newcastle next...
cant see us winning any of these games, promotion and play offs all over come december 19th at st james park.
with our non league standard manager who thinks hes doing our club a favour been here.

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 17:17
Appalling

This shifting views after the event is embarrassing to read.

Dear me.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 17:17
Appalling

"non league standard manager"

Where on earth do some people live?

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 17:18
Appalling

[rle]if we go on a good run, adi will suddenly come out with this

'i knew we had a good squad all along' XXXXXXe


you just know he will

truely pathetic

foggysfplandiet Posted on 28/11/2009 17:19
Appalling

Ultimately it was shown that Gareth's appointment was the wrong one.

It is also increasingly obvious, by the week, that Strachan's appointment was equally wrong. Sorry but this is not going to improve.

Our best chance of getting promoted was this season; it is now effectively gone. It will be even more difficult next season as once again our best players are lured away and crowds dip even lower.

We needed to replace Gareth with a charismatic leader with a proven track record of success, that the players would respond to. We chose Gordon Strachan.


workonthedarkside Posted on 28/11/2009 17:26
Appalling

We needed to replace Gareth with a charismatic leader with a proven track record of success, that the players would respond to. We chose Gordon Strachan.
correct it should have been done after Mclaren

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 17:27
Appalling

"It is also increasingly obvious, by the week, that Strachan's appointment was equally wrong. Sorry but this is not going to improve."

He's been here for just over a month. How do you know things won't improve?

"Our best chance of getting promoted was this season; it is now effectively gone."

Really? Chance of going up gone by November? You're as bad as Sky Sports when they said the other day 'we're at the business end of the season now.' No, we're not. It's November.

"We needed to replace Gareth was a charismatic leader with a proven track record of success, that the players would respond to. We chose Gordon Strachan."

Strachan IS charismatic. But he's also disciplined and maybe some of our less-willing players are uncomfortable now we have a manager who won't hide behind the same-old nonsense PR rubbish like Gareth did. He also has a good track record of achieving decent stuff on a modest budget.

I can't believe people are calling his appointment a 'mistake' after just four games.

skiprat Posted on 28/11/2009 17:30
Appalling

Care to mention any names? I know Alex Ferguson's a bit busy so we couldn't choose him to be manager.

thornaboro Posted on 28/11/2009 17:32
Appalling

the ginger non league manager just been out foxes by a ex confrence manager mr cooper.
scottish league is the same as northern league s h ite.
that where he had hes best days, taken over martin oneils team.

workonthedarkside Posted on 28/11/2009 17:34
Appalling

Its pointless talking about getting rid of Srachen,we all know thats not going to happen .Unless ofcourse we lose Gibson;which may be a better solution

Sitrep Posted on 28/11/2009 17:35
Appalling

I said before a ball was kicked this season, “with Southgate in charge we wouldn’t make the play offs” and that was before the sale of Huth, Southgate assembled this squad of bottler’s, the team has no heart. Gibson needs to give GS funds in January

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 17:36
Appalling

People forget we lost our first four games under McClaren and looked utterly hopeless in each of them. He then went on to become our most successful ever manager so just calm it down a bit and give him some time.

br14 Posted on 28/11/2009 17:39
Appalling

Our squad wasn't as bad as some are making out. We were narrowly relegated last season and but for some poor decisions would have survived with points to spare the league was that crap.

That doesn't excuse the fact Southgate wasn't a great manager but the point is that with Southgate we were within a shout of an automatic promotion place.

The mistake that was made with the Strachan appointment is his style simply doesn't fit Boros squad. He wants all out physical commitment and our squad is full of players carrying injuries and who are not 90 minute athletes.

I reckon a more cerebral manager (Curbishley maybe), would have got more out of the existing squad.

Two points out of a possible 12 is relegation form, and we have a run of games against better opposition.

Not saying Strachan can't turn things around but it's going to take a complete overhaul of the side for him to achieve that.

We don't have the time for him to complete the job and get promotion in the next two seasons.


Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:45
Appalling

I think you'll find Dude et al that I changed my view on the squad whilst Southgate was still here. I recall a particular thread on this very topic. Feel free to find it if you want.

So, as usual, with his eyes in constant roll mode, the Dude shows himself up.

So, on that basis, I have not changed my mind after the event at all. I have changed my pre-season view that we have one of the best squads in the division in light of the evidence in front of my eyes.

What I have not changed is my view that we will end up in the play offs. Been saying it since before the season started. I will keep saying it now.

What I am not prepared to do is write Strachan off after 4 games. I am surprised at how many people are.

Jonny - is it not pure speculation to argue that the good run would have continued under Southgate?

borolad - you never 'deal' with me but that's by the by - I didn't suggest that you had a problem in that respect. What I posted, as you well know, is that you have a problem with an opposing view to your own. I am happy to say that I don't.

GaZBoro Posted on 28/11/2009 17:47
Appalling

I stopped getting miserable after results a while ago. I too was hopeful we could bounce back and win promotion at the first attempt after realising just how shyte this league is. Now I've realised we're just as shyte as the rest - and its purely Southgates fault because he built this team.

Strachan is here to REBUILD. He even mentioned in his first interview that he took the job because he'll be given the time he needs.

Even the greatest manager in the world wouldn't get this shower of shyte promoted, and if by a miracle he did I shudder to think how they'd cope in the Premiership next year.

People need to quickly realise we won't be serious promotion contenders until Strachan has had 3 or 4 transfer windows to ship out the shyte and build his own team and work at improving the few players he'll want to keep (there won't be many). The sooner you realise that, the less miserable your weekends will be.

I expect us to finish about where we are now this season - mid-table consolodation. Next year I expect a play-off place, and if we don't make it I expect us to win this division the following year. One thing is for sure a Gordon Strachan team in the Premiership will not go down with a whimper like the last lot did, so if it takes him the 3 years to get us back up I feel confident we'll compete and do well once we're there. Rome wasn't built in a day. Give the bloke a chance to clean up 3 years of Southgates mess.

4 games ffs [rle]

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 17:49
Appalling

[:D]ha ha ha ha ha

terrible attempt to escape your embarrasing hypocracy adi guess


he he he he he

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:49
Appalling

That's the point for me. I might well be wrong about Strachan. I absiolutely accept that. After 4 games though? Not for me.

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 17:50
Appalling

Give him 5 years[:D]

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 17:51
Appalling

Fences are swaying.

GaZBoro Posted on 28/11/2009 17:53
Appalling

"That's the point for me. I might well be wrong about Strachan. I absiolutely accept that. After 4 games though? Not for me."


I could understand this if he had 11 of his own players out there in them 4 games, but he hasn't. Its still Southgate's dross he's having to work with. The cack that limply went down last year setting new unwanted records in the process.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 28/11/2009 17:56
Appalling

"Jonny - is it not pure speculation to argue that the good run would have continued under Southgate?"

I was suggestion the opposite, that the most likely thing to happen was a continuation of the current form.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:57
Appalling

No fence sitting here red. I am 100% behind Strachan. I absolutely think he is the man for the job and a huge improvement on Southgate. I am happy to say that, even after the 4 game run we've had. All I'm saying is that to write him off after 4 games is nonsense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 17:57
Appalling

Exactly my point - either scenario is speculation and opinion. It could just have easily dropped to the WBA, Leicester, COv run we had of 1 point from 3.

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 18:00
Appalling

Actually Adi, I actively want to be wrong on this score. But I'm not. Sacking Southgate at that point in time was counter-productive (given the season's objective).
If I had a problem dealing with the fact that other people hold a contrary opinion, I wouldn't have spent so much time this week engaged in debate with them/you. [;)]

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 18:01
Appalling

on what basis is strachan a better manager adi

what has he done that betters southgate

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 18:04
Appalling

You have a point there mind!! I do think you have me wrong though. I have admitted to being wrong and indeed have been dead wrong on countless times on here.

I hope you're wrong too!

What's the point in me answering Dude. You'll just roll your eyes and deride whatever I say instead of engaging in a debate.

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 18:05
Appalling

I wanted Southgate sacked.
I wanted a good replacement.

I think they should have bulleted him and then see who put up for the job, instead of working a flanker on the bloke.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 28/11/2009 18:06
Appalling

Skiprat: I can't mention any because there was no obvious candidate available after Southgate's sacking. I'm not staying Southgate should not have gone, I am saying that it was pointless replacing him with a man who IMHO has no track record to suggest he will get us up this year. Gibson said that he sacked Southgate and brought Strachan in because it was so important that we go back up again THIS season and under Southgate that wasn't going to happen. Well it clearly isn't going to happen under WGS and frankly it never was.


Other replies:

"He's been here for just over a month. How do you know things won't improve?"

What makes you thnk they will? 2 points from 12 against poor opposition and we have Toon, WBA away and other teams above us to come, what is there about that statistic that suggests to you that things will improve?


"Chance of going up gone by November? You're as bad as Sky Sports"

Statistically speaking we could win the league; realistically speaking we won't even finish in a play-off place. We aren't improving we are getting worse. MUCH worse.



"Strachan IS charismatic".

[:D] Aye, right.


"He also has a good track record of achieving decent stuff on a modest budget."

He got Southampton up. He also took Coventry down.


"I can't believe people are calling his appointment a 'mistake' after just four games."

I thought it was a mistake before a game had been played because he just wasn't what we needed.

However I still hope and pray that wee Gordy proves me massively wrong! [smi]



The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 18:07
Appalling

no i won't

what evidence is there that strachan is a better manager than southgate in english football, they both have similiar records, both relegated

i dont count his management of celtic as most zoo animals would get them in the top 2

workonthedarkside Posted on 28/11/2009 18:10
Appalling

Dude there;s no evidence ;but there;s no evidence because he;s only managed 4 games .If after 15-20 and its still the same then judge him but not now you can;t

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 18:11
Appalling

Fair enough Adi.
I wish I could let it lie, but for the last few weeks, with each loss, the anger is compounded by my memory of the calls for Southgate's head, which I thought were irrational at the time(and I'll admit, they really XXXXXXed me off). I ought to be a bigger and better man, but actually getting it off my chest makes me feel better. It's a bit vengeful, which is not how I should be feeling towards my fellow fans.

KobeB Posted on 28/11/2009 18:13
Appalling

Dude

when did Southgate get Boro to an FA cup final and finish 8th??????????????


Holgateoldskool Posted on 28/11/2009 18:15
Appalling

Seems like my judgement of our playing "strengths" pre season were about spot on - just like last season.........

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 18:16
Appalling

"What makes you thnk they will? 2 points from 12 against poor opposition and we have Toon, WBA away and other teams above us to come, what is there about that statistic that suggests to you that things will improve?"

The fact that this league is so tight and two-three wins can put you right back up there. I'm hopeful we can put a run together before the January sales open and we can attract a couple of decent players in and push on. Anyone can beat anyone in this league and we have players capable of scoring a goal.

"He got Southampton up. He also took Coventry down."

He took Southampton up into the top-half and had them playing some great football. He took them into Europe and did it all on a modest budget. He kept Coventry up for years with hardly anything to spend, they did go down in the end but under-investment in the team was a major factor. He obviously used what he learned at Coventry well because he showed he had developed as a manager when he was to move Southampton onwards and upwards. He won leagues with Celtic and took them into the second-phase of the European Cup. You can talk about the standard of the SPL but he still did the business and coped with the pressure of managing a pretty big club.




The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 18:19
Appalling

im not interested in what strachan achieved with another club 10 years ago


why dont we get bryan robson back, he got us to 2 cup finals in a year

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 18:21
Appalling

So, when looking for a new manager you don't take into account their past-career and credentials?

You'd be giving Darren Ferguson the job then because he was doing well five miuntes ago.


HolgateCorner Posted on 28/11/2009 18:24
Appalling

totally ridiculous to write Strachan off after four games.

this requirement for instant gratification and satisfaction resulted in the credit crunch, don't people ever learn?

Southagte had his chance, got us relegated, and he has gone for ever now, no good being angry about something outside of your control.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 28/11/2009 18:28
Appalling

I think GS will prove to be a good appointment, although I have a niggling doubt about the amount of supposed discontent amongst the player.

Just idle speculation, hopefully.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 18:30
Appalling

What's all this about player discontent? I haven't heard anything...

br14 Posted on 28/11/2009 18:31
Appalling

Rebuild? A team that was third in the Championship? Why?

Even now we probably have far more quality that most in this division.

What we needed was a manager with experience that could add the extra Southgate was missing. The strategic nouse to make a substitution at the right time instead of 5 minutes after we concede the lead.

What we got is a one dimensional manager who clearly doesn't know how to use what he has and so has to replace the lot.

Strachan may be the answer, but clearly not with the current squad.

Can we afford a couple of seasons while we rebuild? Bearing in mind we lose the parachute payment next season.

And while Strachan still has the confidence of some with two or three more poor results the crowds will be smaller than with Southgate.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 28/11/2009 18:31
Appalling

As someone else said above WGS ain't going anywhere and he will probably still be manager here 2 years from now regardless of what happens. As I say, I hope he proves me wronger than anyone ever was.

A year, even a few months ago I would have been very down about Boro's recent form but I'm now beginning to lose any feeling TBH. It's strangely quite liberating.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 18:37
Appalling

i can't understand why people thought strachan would come in and we would get 30000 every week and play like brazil 1970, if anything, because strachan has no connection with the club at all, we will probably get even lower crowds than southgate

strachan had it easy in scotland playing pub teams every week, making important subs etc was irrelevant, and so were tactics, celtic didnt even bother playing with full backs in that league cos they didnt need them, such was its comical ineptitude

Gillandi Posted on 28/11/2009 18:46
Appalling

Didnt Lamb say that the club started to have doubts about Southgates ability to get us back up months ago so they looked and asked round for someone capable of doing just that? They werent looking to give anyone 3 years to do it.

Adi-Dem said the other day his opinion hasnt changed on where we'll finish up from the beginning of the season....in the play-offs. Makes me wonder what we achieved by switching managers in his opinion. We've gone from a manager capable of getting us in the play-offs to a manager capable of getting us to the play-offs, only we've taken the unnecessary risk that the new guy wont be able to do it. One thats looking like its backfired. On form we have to be bottom 3 at the mo.


KobeB Posted on 28/11/2009 18:49
Appalling

So you aren't bothered about what Strachan acheived (on a positive note) but you are on a negative note?

Oh...Let's talk about now...Southgate took us down. He was XXXXXX as a manager...something you can't grasp.

You're a bit simple child...back to school Monday though eh??

foggysfplandiet Posted on 28/11/2009 18:52
Appalling

Indeed. Just a reminder to those saying that Strachan needs time and it will take a season or two to rebuild - Gibson clearly stated that Southgate was sacked because Gibbo feared we wouldn't go up next May and Strachan was brought in to get promotion this season; I repeat THIS SEASON!

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 18:54
Appalling

[rle]petty borng insults at the dude, only strengthen my resolve

like gillandi says, we have gone from being a devastating away team, a point of top and play off certs certs, to 'dreaming' of being a devastating away team, a point of top and promotion certs, in a few weeks

and some of you still think it was a good decision, youve all being celebrating southgates sacking for too long, and our current demise is still being attributed to a manager who is no longer in charge of first team affairs

in quarreling about the shadow, youv'e all lost the substance

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 18:55
Appalling

"i can't understand why people thought strachan would come in and we would get 30000 every week and play like brazil 1970, if anything, because strachan has no connection with the club at all, we will probably get even lower crowds than southgate"

Where did that come from? I don't know anyone, myself included, who even dreamed that 30,000 would just flood back through the turnstiles just because Southgate had gone. Nobody expected us to turn into Brazil of 1970 either, so you're arguments are peppered with nonsensical truth-decoration.

"strachan had it easy in scotland playing pub teams every week, making important subs etc was irrelevant, and so were tactics, celtic didnt even bother playing with full backs in that league cos they didnt need them, such was its comical ineptitude"

Did you watch Celtic every week like? The SPL is bottom-half of the Championship meets top-end of League One in it's standard, you can see that when transfers take place between English and Scottish clubs unless it's an international player, when a Premier League club might be willing to take a punt. He took over Martin O'Neill's side and continued winning trophies, bringing in some decent playes along the way. Nakamura for example. Whenever O'Neill's managerial record is discussed we hear "what a fantastic job he did at Celtic..." but when Strachan's record is used, we're meant to forget the Celtic success because it's an inferior league. Nonsense. He won trophies and took Celtic further in the European Cup than Martin O'Neill did.



KobeB Posted on 28/11/2009 18:55
Appalling

devastating

GOOD GOD!!

I forgot we were Arsenal in their prime! [ref]

joebonano Posted on 28/11/2009 19:02
Appalling

Foggy are you still daft enough to believe a word that comes out of Gibbo,s mouth?.He told us in May if you remember that his aim was to have the strongest squad in the Champo.We then sell £27 mill of players and replace them with 2 freebies and a League one player for 500k.
If you still believe him you are as daft as a brush.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 19:03
Appalling

[rle]is this bloke taking the XXXXXX, rangers and celtic are close to the others

celtics wage bill 39 million

dundee united in 3rd place 2.5 million

yeh, there only about 35 million behind in wages, very, very close

the fact nobody else apart from rangers and celtic have won the league for about 400 years doesnt dampen your spirit

theres is rangers and celtic then usually a gap of about 30 points

very, very close league

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 19:03
Appalling

With Southgate you sometimes think he stuck with players that were a losing hand.

Hitting teams on the break away from home we did fairly well, at home as you know we struggled to break down teams that showed a little bit of resolve.

Southgate struggled to make his players battle to a result at home or work a team over, probably due to there age and experience but he never seem to know the horses for courses.

This fella has only been here weeks but he seems much the same, maybe Im expecting an Initial"Ill show you what I can do" approach from the players.

So far it has been as half arsxed.

mitch_mfc Posted on 28/11/2009 19:06
Appalling

Seriously there is just no pleasing in Boro fans, the amount of slack Southgate got on this board - you wanted him sacked and he was sacked, no matter whoever the replacement was there was always going to be a minority outcry against him. This squad is well and truely as weak as I have ever saw it and you cannot blame Strachan for this, we cannot keep cleansheets to save our lives at the minute our problems have been exposed all season under Southgate and Strachan, even when I went to deepdale to watch the 2-2 draw it just goes to show no matter who the manager is there are deep problems and we need major changes

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 19:10
Appalling

I'm saying the overall standard is that of the Championship/top end of League One. Did i say Celtic and Rangers were "close" to the others?

As for the gap, have a look at the league table over the past few years. The fact you state that the same two teams always win the league, then in above post that you "don't care what happened ten years ago" is confusing. You either use history and fact to form an argument or you don't.

The current Scottish league table also doesn't fit with your view, as it genuinely is close this year, albeit early days.

joebonano Posted on 28/11/2009 19:11
Appalling

Mitch-bang on.
Coventry-Southgate-2-0 with 12 minutes to go
Preston-Cooper-led twic pegged back in injury time
Peterboro-Strachan-ditto
See a pattern appearing.6 points chucked away

mitch_mfc Posted on 28/11/2009 19:15
Appalling

joebonano just summed it up really I still think we will sell Johnson and O'neill in January and Pogatetz will sign a new deal. For all those who say well there goes our ambition for this season that just is not true. The simple fact is that we lack experience all round the side, I can see Strachan getting a few players from Celtic, as Onthemap said earlier we were 10minutes away from a playoff spot, its plain to see - you go on a run and you are heavily in the mix look at Swansea prior to todays game. The run needs to start as soon as possible but the season ends in May not November

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 19:16
Appalling

Gillandi - in answer to your question, the reason I wanted Southgate out was that he wasn't doing a good enough job. The benefits to us replacing him, for me, are that we will have a better chance in the play offs with Strachan than we would Southgate, that I wouldn't trust Southgate with the January transfer fund and that I thought Southgate had lost the fans and there was a danger of that derailing the season.

Dude - you have proven me exactly right. You ask me to tell you what Strachan has done that Southgate hasn't and yet restrict me so that I can't refer to what he did 10 years ago or refer to his time in Scotland. Ludicrous.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 28/11/2009 19:21
Appalling

The fact that Southgate lost the fans (or enough of them to matter) cost him his job ultimately.

But Strachan has a traget of promotion and anything less will be a failure this season. At the moment we look a million miles away from that aim.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 19:21
Appalling

[rle]what, so your suggesting that strachans tenure at celtic, where it has been scientifically proven to be impossible not to finish either first or second, is a good precursor to apportion success and to use it as a quantifiable yarsdstick to measure his managerial abilities?

well, does beating falkirk make you a paragon of virtue in the managerial stakes or not?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 19:32
Appalling

Where has it been scientifically proven? Didn't Rangers finish outside the top two a couple of years back? I'm not using his successful reign at one of Europe's most illustrious clubs alone as my quantifiable yardstick for measuring his managerial abilities. I am using his past managerial career at Coventry and Southampton as well, i'm using his vast international experience as a player, his attitude and achievements as a player, what he says when he speaks to the press and his standing within the game. For me, they stack up in his favour. Of all the manager's available at the time, we got the best one. If you want to write him off after four games and pine for a man who started off badly and got progressively worse then go for it.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 19:33
Appalling

[rle]er, no they didnt

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 19:36
Appalling

It was one of the two big Glasgow clubs, as Hearts played AEK Athens in a European Cup qualifier after finishing second in the league.

Check your facts matey.

attonBORO Posted on 28/11/2009 19:37
Appalling

Ambition and Steve Gibson dosent go into the same sentence!

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 19:38
Appalling

Behave remember Charlie.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 19:42
Appalling

[rle]oh yea, hearts finsihed 2nd, which doesnt actually strengthen strachans crudentials, it makes them weaker, only having to finish above 'hearts' to win the league

mind you, that was the only time in the history of the 'scottish premier league' that rangers and celtic haven't been 1 and 2

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 19:43
Appalling

Here you go dude. Sorry it was three years ago, not sure if you care about historical fact when forming an opinion/argument but here's some evidence for you.


Link: 3rd: Rangers

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 19:44
Appalling

[rle]like i said, can't see how this strengthens your view on strachan

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 19:45
Appalling

"oh yea, hearts finsihed 2nd, which doesnt actually strengthen strachans crudentials, it makes them weaker, only having to finish above 'hearts' to win the league"

Does it? Does it really? Really though, does it? Does it honestly weaken his credentials? I mean, but, does it though?

How strong are Southgate's credentials in comparison with Strachan's then?

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 19:55
Appalling

"How strong are Southgate's credentials in comparison with Strachan's then?"

Well, at the moment, the comparable evidence of their respective records with this squad, this season, in this league, Southgate's record stands at 64% win record, whilst Strachan's is 0%.
You won't like that though Viv. It doesn't correspond with your sentiment.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 20:03
Appalling

My sentiment is that Gordon Strachan has proved over a number of years that he is a good football manager. Gareth Southgate proved in just over three years that he was not up to the job.

People have quickly forgotten how bad things were under him. As i said earlier, we were playing abysmal football at home, had no balance, hardly scored at home, lacked leadership, fitness and self-belief and were booed off almost every home game. (Last season and most of this).

Maybe in the future Gareth will come good and use the experience he gained with us to his advantage, i hope he does. You can't deny though that he made a mess of our team. In my opinion, Gordon Strachan is the best man to turn us around and instill some discipline whilst addressing the many problems that Gareth left us with.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 20:05
Appalling

you can't compare soutgates 64% win ratio with strachans %0 ratio as strachan was given the money to brng 3 premiership players on loan

if strachan has a comparitive percentage, its minus something

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:06
Appalling

Viv, the criteria you are judging Southgate by would have indicated that WGS was not up to the job when he took Coventry into the relegation positions twice during his spell at Coventry (although a fax machine error rescued him once).

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 20:06
Appalling

Southgate had money to spend and spent it on Sean St.Ledger and Caleb Folan.

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:09
Appalling

Ah well, another week rolls by. You'd better hope WGS turns things round quickly because otherwise The Dude is going to drive you all nuts.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 20:13
Appalling

Southgate took over a team full of international players, fresh out of two great runs in Europe, and a very productive youth academy.

Strachan took over a team that consistently avoided relegation during the last knockings of the season.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 20:17
Appalling

[rle]southgate took over a team of ex-international players

they had all retired or to old to play for there teams

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 20:23
Appalling

borolad - there isn't a comparison to be drawn over 4 games for two main reasons. Firstly, the opposition differ and secondly it isn't long enough to draw any comparison.

For example, let's say Strachan took over after the WBA, Leicester and Coventry games in which we got 1 point under Southgate. Let's then say that Strachan got a win in his first 3 games. Would that, conversely, prove that Strachan was better?

Of course it wouldn't. It's far too early to tell. The fact is that Southgate has gone and Strachan is in. On a matchday I backed the team when Southgate was in charge, I'll back it with Strachan in charge.

I know what you mean about this being a good release by the way. There may be more Teesside dogs getting kicked if it weren't for this board!

Dude - you don't half tie yourself up in knots. First it's scientifically proven (eh????) that Rangers and Celtic can't finish outside of the top 2 and then, when that is proven to be inaccurate, it doesn't matter anyway because it doesn't strengthen Strachan's credentials? Utterly bizarre.

What about Strachan getting Celtic into the last 16 of the Champions League (was it twice??)? Or does that have to be excluded because it contradicts your view?

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 20:24
Appalling

[rle]oh, adi guess with his knots anaology, how exciting

what have you been doing, the clubs accounts again, dont you normally do that in a week day

onthemap Posted on 28/11/2009 20:24
Appalling

Dude
"yeh 'mappy' it was dire straits when southgate left, a full point from league leaders"

"Using that analogy we were flying when Smac left, one match from Uefa Cup winners....or doesn't that count?"

"Waiting, hurry up X Factors on[^]"

Ad break and still no answer.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 20:25
Appalling

Did he? I must have imagined Poggy, Huth, Riggot, McMahon, Taylor, Hines, Wheater, Johnson, Downing, Yak, Morrison, Cattermole etc etc I must have imagined Boateng, Viduka et al continuing to play and effectively keeping us up. I probably imagined the £50m Southgate spent fumbling around the transfer market too.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 20:26
Appalling

What a brilliant response Dude. Ignore the points made in the post (because they make you look daft) and go on about something completely different. I'd love to read your answer to mappie's question as well.

AlBoro1984 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:30
Appalling

Does The Dude genuinely think Southgate is a good manager?

I bet he was one of the clowns posting the league table and being all smug to the doubters after we beat Villa and were 7th early on last season.

Probably explains the bitterness.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 20:32
Appalling

He actually argued that we should have got a manager that was experienced in getting promotion out of this division. He backed himself so far into a corner that he ended up saying that Viv Anderson would have been a better choice than Strachan.

It is now odd that he wants to dismiss Strachan's Scottish achievements on the basis that it is an inferior league. I would have thought that experience of a poor division would be perfect.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 20:33
Appalling

"Did he? I must have imagined Poggy, Huth, Riggot, McMahon, Taylor, Hines, Wheater, Johnson, Downing, Yak, Morrison, Cattermole etc etc I must have imagined Boateng, Viduka et al continuing to play and effectively keeping us up. I probably imagined the £50m Southgate spent fumbling around the transfer market too."

The list of international-class players he inherited is frightening. You can add Tuncay, Luke Young and Woodgate to that as well. His foundations were built, he just didn't know what to do with them.

borolad259 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:36
Appalling

Mappy's analogy....very good Mappy. Excellent stuff.
We didn't sack SNAC though did we...clown. Paid up yet?

boro8686 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:39
Appalling

Poggy, Huth, Riggot, McMahon, Taylor, Hines, Wheater, Johnson, Downing, Yak, Morrison, Cattermole
The list of international-class players he inherited is frightening. You can add Tuncay, Luke Young and Woodgate to that as well
name one of these inherited players thats setting the premier league alight please now theyve gone?

boro8686 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:41
Appalling

borolad i spotted mappys cock up too did he not leave to take the england job?

onthemap Posted on 28/11/2009 20:42
Appalling

"Mappy's analogy....very good Mappy. Excellent stuff.
We didn't sack SNAC though did we...clown. Paid up yet?"

Sorry son, it wasn't me that made the point and who is SNAC?

Oh and no they haven't paid up - despite a full search now being readily available.

AlBoro1984 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:42
Appalling

"name one of these inherited players thats setting the premier league alight please now theyve gone?"

Cattermole, Yak, Huth, Young, Schwarzer and Woodgate have all been playing very well for their new clubs (until injuries in certain cases)

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 20:43
Appalling

[:D]

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 20:49
Appalling

[rle]oh, so its southgates fault schwarzer didnt sign a contract is it

and its southgates fault cos we had to sell young and huth to stay afloat, huth only looked good in the championship anyway

and that 8 million we got for woodgate when hes hardly played since ws peanuts was it

and that 13 million we got for yakubu when he couldnt be arsed was bad was it

and that 3.5 millino for a young reserve who couldnt get in the team was so bad


why make out there top class players at the top of there game when they are not, young has been dropped, woodgates always been overrated, yakub hasnt played for a year

looking back, i think it was miraculous he got nigh on 30 million for that rabble to be fair, not that he did, the club did

boro8686 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:51
Appalling

Cattermole, Yak, Huth, Young, Schwarzer and Woodgate have all been playing very well for their new clubs (until injuries in certain cases)

any in your fantasy team, take out schwarzer theyve not played 20 games between the lot of them, plus they were the select few from the actual post keep going for the international inheritance that southgate was blessed with

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 20:52
Appalling

Rocky as well. Downing might do OK!!!!!!!!

onthemap Posted on 28/11/2009 20:54
Appalling

Scwartzer was spotted in a European game recently.

boro8686 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:55
Appalling

onthe map, do you do soundbites professionally or have you got anything to say of substance?

AlBoro1984 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:55
Appalling

Schwarzer - Perhaps not, but he has played well for Fulham and has not been replaced.

Huth - Was fine last season, Wheater and our full backs were the jokers. Same as this season actually.

Young - Was class for Villa till his brother died. Back now and kept Lennon in his pocket for most of the game.

Woodgate - Played well for Spurs including a winning carling cup goal till his recent injury.

Yakubu - We only got 11.25M for him actually, and when fit he scores goals, just been unlucky recently.

Cattermole - Only Southgate's ineptness stopped him getting into our team. His performances for Wigan and Sunderland have proved this. Or do you think Bates/Arca/Didier Glasslegs are better?

boro8686 Posted on 28/11/2009 20:57
Appalling

i agree cattermole was a terrible sale but again the majority on here said he was crap not long ago or have the views conveniently changed on that too

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 21:04
Appalling

Dude, it is precisely Southgate's fault we had to sell Huth. He went because we got relegated for goodness sake!!

We didn't have to sell Young. We sold him with Southgate's full approval because the deal was very good and he got the money to re-invest in the squad. He replaced Young with Hoyte.

Yakubu hasn't played for a year because he ruptured his achilles. We got £11m for him by the way.

Woodgate overrated is he? Well Southgate paid exactly the same amount as we sold him for.

He had Schwarzer for 2 seasons. More than enough time to plan for his departure.

In fact, every argument you're putting up just proves how good Southgate had it when he took over.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 21:13
Appealling

[:D]really, hmm,i see

bear66 Posted on 28/11/2009 21:18
Appalling

"I still believe Strachan is the right man for us but he does have to show it and show it now"

Show what? He is exactly what we brought; someone with little knowledge of the current English game; someone who doesn't know the players; someone who hasn't got a Championship side promoted. He's doing what was expected, exactly.

red_shamrock Posted on 28/11/2009 21:21
Appalling

You make him sound a complete Novice Bear.

Adi_Dem Posted on 28/11/2009 21:21
Appalling

That description could just as aptly fit Southgate actually.

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 21:34
Appalling

[V]woodgates stock hasn't improved since he left

come to think of it, aside from cattermole, none of them have

but it's all opinions after all

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 21:37
Appalling

All of their stocks have risen Dude. Which division are we in compared to them?

The_Dude Posted on 28/11/2009 21:48
Appalling

[V]no evidence to suggest there stocks have risen, so to just affirm it like your an opnipotent authority on football is tedious at best

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/11/2009 21:53
Appalling

Not sure what you're on about to be honest with you.

Have a look at this and see if you can talk me through what you were trying to imply i was doing, if you would be so kind.


Link: words

boro74 Posted on 28/11/2009 22:05
Appalling

I was disappointed when Southgate was sacked. I would have preferred to let him see his contract out. I think he could have got us up this season.

However, people on here criticising Strachan's record are wrong. Getting Southampton to the cup final is good management. Getting Celtic to the CL knockout stages is good management.

I'm sure he will eventually get things right here. I think we have a decent squad Defintely good enough to finish in the top third of this league.

redwurzel Posted on 29/11/2009 02:10
Appalling

Boro 74 I agree

The result may have been disappointing today, but it looks like it was an improvement on the last 3 games with a couple of key players missing.

Most of teams above us fighting for play off places failed to win : QPR/Leicester/Swansea/Bristol City

Genghis_Khan Posted on 29/11/2009 02:51
Appalling

"and its southgates fault cos we had to sell young and huth to stay afloat, huth only looked good in the championship anyway"

We had to sell them because he got us relegated, what a ridiculous post.

"and that 8 million we got for woodgate when hes hardly played since ws peanuts was it"

We paid £7m for him and sold him for £7m and we also contributed towards his wages for the length of his first contract, so he made a loss on him.

"and that 13 million we got for yakubu when he couldnt be arsed was bad was it"

It was £11.25m and Southgate didn't sign him, he couldn't get the best out of him and he wanted away and played poorly, again no credit.

"and that 3.5 millino for a young reserve who couldnt get in the team was so bad"

Aye thats the player that was sold for £8m a year later.

Just face it Southgate was a terrible terrible manager, whatever your reasons are... they're clearly personal ones... you've lost your objectivity (if you ever had any) you're now attacking a man who has barely got his foot in the door, you sound like a Geordie.

We don't know how Strachan will do but he needs time.

br14 Posted on 29/11/2009 07:07
Appalling

Are you lot sure you're not really Newcastle fans? You seem to see everything in black and white.

The fact is that Southgate was not a great manager. Certainly he wasn't as good as McClaren. But he wasn't a terrible manager either.

There are many reasons why we were relegated, but key factors included the sale of experienced players that were never replaced. Since Southgate himself said last summer he expected to replace the likes of Boateng etc, it's a fair assumption he had the financial rug pulled from under him.

Last season the club spent the least amount in probably 15 years on players. A net spend of maybe a million. Largely because the financial wizard that runs our club managed to arrange it so we had debt repayments of 27 million due.

Even so there is no doubt in my mind that a better manager would have kept us up.

Even before last season on average Southgate did not spend as much as McClaren; but including last season the amount is noticably smaller. He also reduced the overall salary budget by a significant margin. So he clearly did not have the same resources as McClaren - as was implied by Mr Gibson on several occasions.

Even so he still spent a lot of money and not very well - though based on recent comments it sounds like he had little to do with the Alves signing. Probably explains why he no trouble XXXXXXing the lad off and dropping him just as he was starting to score the odd goal.

So I believe Southgate would have kept us up if he'd had his usual 8 million to spend last season. But we'd still only have squeaked safety by a few points.

As to whether Southgate is a better manager than Strachan only time will tell, however I'd say he'd be a better manager of the current squad.

Strachan may be a better manager in the long run, but only after he has built the team in his image. He doesn't seem to be able to do much with what he has at his disposal.

Therefore the play-offs is the best we can hope for, and frankly it isn't looking very likely after four games.

Still maybe we'll do better in our next four games against QPR, Blackpool, Cardiff and Newcastle. All of whom are currently above us in the table.

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 08:28
Appalling

Couldn't disagree more br14. He was a terrible manager. He might not be in the future but for us, he was. He was the reason we got relegated.

You can make all the assumptions you like about finance but the reality is that his signings were awful, his tactics non existent and he could not change a game.

The summer before we won the Carling Cup we spent a net sum of £300k on players. 6 months before the summer we had broken our transfer record by some £6m. Southgate spent £8m on Digard and Emnes. For his first three seasons the transfer fee spend comparison between Southgate and McClaren is remarkably similar. We did cut the wage bill, but then so did McClaren. It certainly wasn't to the extent that some believe.

Finally, it is absolutely inaccurate to suggest that Southgate didn't sign Alves. Of course he did.

There is no hiding from it. Southgate took us down because he made poor decisions.

mwelolo Posted on 29/11/2009 08:29
Appalling

"I think we have a decent squad Defintely good enough to finish in the top third of this league."

For me that outcome would be an abject bloody failiure and not a sign of a decent squad at all.

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 08:30
Appalling

Agreed lolo.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 29/11/2009 08:39
Appalling

br14 / adi - pretty much spot on assessments.[^]

Ultimately, Southgate left us with a píss poor squad. No hiding from it. He has spent poorly, and has assembled a gutless, weak set of players who seem incapable of battling out a victory. Which, in this division, is vital.

Are there players (Southgates players) in the squad who have their comfort zone well and truly knacked by Strachan coming in and are sulking? Maybe.

I was hopeful that the squad, with a more experienced manager, would need a bit of tweaking and we would be okay - however it is glaringly obvious this is not to be the case. A rebiuld will be needed, and Strachan will have to be given 2 seasons to do this - not 4 fóóking games.

We are going nowhere this season, and will have to look at next season to mount a serious assault on the top 2. With a massively overhauled squad.

[DFS]

bear66 Posted on 29/11/2009 08:42
Appalling

a rebuild wasn't necessary to get us out of this division, but it will be now . . . and at least a season later . . . assuming someone will actually fund the rebuild which i can't see happening

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 08:44
Appalling

I think it was bear, and that's the point for me.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 29/11/2009 11:01
Appalling

"Certainly he wasn't as good as McClaren. But he wasn't a terrible manager either. "

He was useless. Why mask it? His signings were the main reason we were relegated, yes of course there were restraints he had to work within but certainly not as tight as some other teams who stayed up. He wasted money on terrible players, simple as that.

boro74 Posted on 29/11/2009 12:52
Appalling


" "I think we have a decent squad Defintely good enough to finish in the top third of this league."

For me that outcome would be an abject bloody failiure and not a sign of a decent squad at all. "

So reaching the play-offs is abject failure?

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 14:24
Appalling

It really is as simple as that genghis. The most important aspect of a manager's role is his signings. It's the area in which Southgate struggled the most and it's the reason we went down.

The_263 Posted on 29/11/2009 15:59
Appalling

Adi has it spot on. 100% agree.

In saying that - regards Southgate - I was saying the exact same thing after ~8 games (ie imbalanced paper thin ineffective squad, with a mod-table finish at best). Perhaps we all learn at different rates [;)]

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 16:16
Appalling

I admit to being hoodwinked by our start last season.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 29/11/2009 16:30
Appalling

"I'm sure he will eventually get things right here. I think we have a decent squad Defintely good enough to finish in the top third of this league."

But Gibson said he specifically sacked Southgate because it was apparent that he would not get us back up THIS season and appointed Strachan specifically with that remit. Merely finishing in the top third, if we don't go up, therefore MUST be failure by Gibson's own criteria.

Old_Gregg Posted on 29/11/2009 16:44
Appalling

As I said last week, either our squad is good and Strachan can't manage them properly or our squad is poor and Southgate was over-achieving with them when he was sacked. Either way says the same thing about the decision to change managers when we did - utterly ludicrous and has destroyed our chances of going up this season.

br14 Posted on 29/11/2009 17:10
Appalling

Adi I'm just looking for some balance. I wanted Southgate out as much as the next fan. It's been clear for ages that his tactical ability was in doubt.

But it doesn't matter how you sell it Southgate took a team full of aging stars on big wages and was forced to replace them with lower cost players.

The likes of Viduka, Parlour, Ehiougu, Hasselbaink, Mendietta - all experienced players on big wages.

Admittedly Southgate brought one or two in on equally big wages, and he certainly didn't manage what he had as well as he could, but the idea that he destroyed the club is ridiculous.

The club administration is what has messed up Boro. Last season alone we ended up with a massive one off charge due to mismanagement.

That mismanagement meant that last season there was no money to strengthen properly in key areas like central midfield and up front. Strachan himself said the squad wasn't big enough - and that was for the Championship.

Given Steve Gibson himself admits Southgate didn't have the resources I don't understand why you're adamant that he did. Are you a connected to Mr Lamb in some way?

You can get all high and mighty about Southgate but the fact is that with the current squad he was doing a better job. Largely I guess because it was his squad.

What we needed was someone to come in and strengthen a little to take us to the next level.

At this point Strachan is manifestly incapable of making the squad he has successful.

We'll see how Strachan works out in the next few weeks when we're up against better opposition. I hope he's successful but the omens aren't good.

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 17:18
Appalling

Sorry Gregg but it is nowhere near as simple as that.

br14 - I have said before and so without repeating myself too much I completely disagree, both about the squad that Southgate took over, about the finance and about how well he was doing with the squad. All of the problems Strachan is now experiencing were there during the games that Southgate had. As I've said, I agree with Gibson that our league position flattered us greatly and probably had a lot to do with the quality of opposition.

He spent £8m on the midfield and he wasted it. 6 months earlier he had dropped £14m on a striker.

I have always said that he didn't have the resource of his predecessors. I have made two key points though. Firstly, the level of financial restriction has been grossly exaggerated and secondly finance was not, in any way, the reason for our relegation.

I don't think the club is destroyed. Far from it. I do believe though that Southgate was the root cause of our relegation.

br14 Posted on 29/11/2009 17:24
Appalling

We were relegated because our squad wasn't strong enough.

Yes there are things Southgate could have done to mitigate against relegation, but even a top class manager would have had difficulties given the thin squad.

When we didn't replace Cattermole (couldn't afford Harper) the writing was on the wall.

So it was really all about money.

Not saying a better manager couldn't have kept us up, but Southgate could have kept us up if he'd had the usual annual budget.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/11/2009 17:35
Appalling

BR14, absolutely agree [rle]

More to the point GS did keep us up when he had his 'usual' annual budget - in the first two seasons.

Adi, I know you believe he had enough money to keep us up, he may have done overall, but the telling thing is that he had to sell in his last season and wasn't given any of that money back to buy players (in balance I mean).

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 17:35
Appalling

That's another myth though. I know for an absolute fact that we had a £5m bid accepted for Harper, both in the summer and the following January. Reading pulled out each time and Southgate didn't have any other targets.

I'm sorry but it simply wasn't about money. He spent £8m on Digard and Emnes. That sums it up. That £8m could have quite easily been spent replacing the outgoing players. We could have kept Rocky had Southgate decided to. We could have kept Cattermole had Southgate wanted to.

All of those are Southgate's decisions, not financial ones.

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 17:38
Appalling

Except that he was Jonny. He could have either kept the players he got rid of or, alternatively, could have spent the £8m on something other than the French version of Darren Anderton and a project.

McClaren spent nothing on transfers in his third pre-season either. We went on to win the Carling Cup.

br14 Posted on 29/11/2009 18:48
Appalling

Adi I don't know who your sources are, but whoever they are they appear biased against Southgate and pro the club.

Clearly Reading hadn't formally accepted the offers or they wouldn't have pulled out. I read we didn't offer Harper enough. Just like apparently we didn't offer Watson enough.

It simply isn't credible that having lost Cattermole in July we couldn't have replaced him by September unless there were other factors involved (i.e money).

We ended up having to play Andrew Taylor in midfield.

Don't tell me Southgate could have replaced him with someone else but didn't because he didn't think we needed anyone.

Whatever else the guy is, he's no idiot.

And if the club is so financially viable (after receiving or expected to receive 20 million+ for summer sales), how come they can't afford to pay Southgate his contract settlement.

CrazyL Posted on 29/11/2009 19:11
Appalling

'I know for an absolute fact that we had a £5m bid accepted for Harper'

I know for an absolute fact that we made a deal with Bolton that we would both offer not a penny more than 3.5M, and, if Reading accepted that offer, then we would battle it out over the personal terms for the player. Reading didn't allow their bluff to be called and didn't accept the offer.

borolad259 Posted on 29/11/2009 19:16
Appalling

So who has the reliable info/ CrazyL or Adi Nuff?

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 20:12
Appalling

Me. There was no such deal with Bolton. A fee was agreed and Reading changed their mind. It happens. The point was that we did have money to spend.

As for the suggestion that Southgate didn't replace Rocky, Cattermole and Boateng - I agree, he didn't. He had £8m to spend to replace those 3 (why he didn't just keep two of them is anyone's guess) and bought Emnes and Digard - two monumental wastes of money and had a further £5m to spend on Harper. We have a wage structure in place which we don't break for anyone hence the reason we didn't offer Watson any more (in any event, Watson went to Wigan because of their league position, not money) and why we're not offering Johnson any more.

If the club couldn't afford the pay Southgate's contract up then, quite simply, they wouldn't (and couldn't in light of their directors' duties) have terminated his ekmployment. What they are doing is hardballing Gareth, if indeed there is any truth to the Daily Mail story, which I doubt. It is some jump to conclude that we can't afford to pay off the ex-manager. In fact, if that were the case there is absolutely no way we could commit to the short term loan deals we have or, indeed, to Strachan's contract. The board at MFC have good advisors.

CrazyL Posted on 29/11/2009 20:23
Appalling

Me. My source is impeccable. It is common practice for clubs to price fix in this way to avoid an auction driving the fee to an over-inflated level. This is exactly what happened with Harper.

Adi_Dem Posted on 29/11/2009 20:33
Appalling

My source is bigger than your source.

[;)]