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Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 10:29
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

If we had surrendered what would Hitler have done next? Would he have moved onto Ussr and left america to the japs? Would america have started using Atom bombs in europe? Or would america and hitler have agreed to leave each other alone? Would we really be speaking german and wearing funny clothes?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 24/09/2009 10:30
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

ask boro bliss.

she loves him, i think.

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 10:33
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

We'd probably still be speaking English.

It's not like the French suddenly started speaking German when they were invaded is it?

Or the East Germans speaking Russian?

If Hitler had of directed all of his forces at us first and not the Eastern Front I have little doubt we'd have lost.

MarlonD Posted on 24/09/2009 10:36
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

They reckon Hitler admired the British and the way we'd built an empire in the 19th/20th centuries and the only thing that stopped him going all out and invading us was that he was hopeful that if he could annexe enough land mass and countries in Europe including Russia, that we would become an ally of Germany.


Algarve Posted on 24/09/2009 10:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The real answer is nobody will ever know, however what is for sure is that the USA would have flattened Berlin, Munich, and Frankfurt with A Bombs as they did in Hiroshima

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 10:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Watched a programme ages ago and apparently he was planning to build an underwater wall from North to South through the atlantic which seem to suggest that he believed America was too big a task.

Reckon if the Russians had been stopped a large-scale invasion of Britain would have been his next step.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 10:41
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

He could probably have 'won' it up to any point before he decided to invade Russia.

It depends what you define as 'won' really. Realistically he was never going to take over the world given the limitations of the size of his army, but he had taken over a lot of land before anyone actually did anything about it.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 10:43
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The battle of Britain and our destruction of french fleets derailed any invasion plan.

Invading our Island would have proved an even greater task than taking Russia.

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 10:45
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Don't be rediculous Genghis.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 10:46
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Genghis, that's one of the most ridiculous XXXXXXing things I have ever read.

HelmutSchmutz Posted on 24/09/2009 10:52
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

He lost the War when he lost the Battle of Stalingrad. Stalingrad had little strategic importance, the reason it was a target was purely because it was named after Stalin. Whilst Hitler was obsessed with Stalingrad the Red Army rebuilt behind it and eventually encircled the German 6th Army.

How close did Hitler come? If he'd have listened to some of his generals and gone around Stalingrad and taken the oil fields behind it the Russians would have lost and then so too would we.

Schoolboyerror Posted on 24/09/2009 10:57
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I have an increasing interest in this, and in Hitler in general and how he managed to convice people to commit the heinous crimes.

I recently watched the whole of "The world at war" to gain a better understanding, and we were not far from being invaded. We had some radar stations on the South coast which were letting us know when and where the Luftwaffe were, giving our boys a great opportunity to get at them. They started bombing these stations and thought they had destroyed them all, so moved on to blitzing London. But they hadn't done as much damage to the radars as they thought, giving us a massive advantage in the "Battle of Britain." Attempting to take on Russia where and when he did was also a big part of his undoing.

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 11:04
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I think the best Hitler could have hoped for after the Battle of Britain would have been stalemate. As pointed out above, he couldn't invade Britain & his great weakness was lack of access to oil & his vulnerability to air attacks on oil installations.

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 11:08
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

If the Germans had directed their full air forces against us in the Battle of Britain we wouldn't have had a chance. It was only because they had so much of the air force taken up in Russia that we survived

Roofus Posted on 24/09/2009 11:08
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

We`de have qualified for the all the world cup and european championship competitions[^][:D]

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:11
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Schoolboyerror, you should try reading the Anthony Beevor books, I think you'll like them.

Off the top of my head he has covered Berlin, Stalingrad and D-Day.

Not_Smog Posted on 24/09/2009 11:14
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

If Germany had won....

We wouldn't have the immigration problem we have now. Islamic terrorist would never have existed.

Jews would be a thing of the past and there would be no physical disabilitys and far far less illness then there is today.


Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 11:14
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

[:O]

The_263 Posted on 24/09/2009 11:16
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

In 1945 the Russians posed a bigger threat to the ROW than the Germans or Japanese. In fact, the A-bombs dumped on Japan was more flexing of the West's muscle and an indirect threat to Russia than it was to end the war with Japan.

In 1940 our Spitfire's and our Lanacaster Bombers were too much of a threat to Adolf. Adolf was shcit-scared of the likes of Laurence Olivier, Michael Caine and Ian McShane.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:16
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

And the trains would run on time, and we wouldn't have this endless debate about the euro. No-one takes our Reichsmark away from us, baby.

YOUDOYLE Posted on 24/09/2009 11:17
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

if hed got his nuculear bomb finished
and his jet powered fighters in to service earlier in the war we d have got battered i think
plus he had just built a massive underground v2 bunker/factory in france which was gonna pummell us with v2 rockets all day and he wouldnt of had to invade till hed flatened us

but he didnt he arsed about with russia and made bad decisions
and we didnt

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:17
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"The failure of Germany to achieve its objectives of destroying Britain's air defences, or forcing Britain to negotiate an armistice or an outright surrender is considered both its first major defeat and one of the crucial turning points in the war.[20] If Germany had gained air superiority, Adolf Hitler might have launched Operation Sealion, an amphibious and airborne invasion of Britain."



You need to study Hitler's invasion plan, you will then realise how dependent it was on air support. Then check how depleted the Luftwffe were.

It seems popular to minimise the impact we had on the early stages of WWII. Sad really. We've become anit-patriotics.

The Geography of the British 'Isles' the clue is in the word Isles... would have made Britian equally as difficult to conquer as Russia. Something Hitler himself conceded.

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 11:19
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I think one of the most decisive campaigns was the victory in North Africa to secure oil.

Towards the end of the war the Germans could hardly fly their planes or drive their tanks due to severe lack of fuel.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:20
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Genghis, 20 million Russians died in WW2.

I think just a hint of perspective might help you.

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 11:21
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

towz, the Battle of Britain was in 1940. Hitler didn't declare war on the Soviet Union until 1941. Operation Barbarossa began in June 1941.

There is evidence that Hitler invaded Russia after losing the Battle of Britain because he didn't want to fight on 2 fronts & hoped to knock the Soviet Union out of the war before the US got involved (as had happened in WW1).

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:22
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Towell, that was more due to the Germans being driven back to a thin strip of the Fatherland where there wasn't any oil. Plus most of their war machinery had been decimated by then anyway.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:22
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Gillzean I'm a history student... I know how many people died... I also know how many of those deaths were utter folly - They were cannon fodder who merely delayed the inevitable.

If they'd been supplied properly they'd have taken Russia, make no mistake.

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 11:23
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Yes but they obviously had a lot of their air force tied up on the eastern borders. If they had concentrated on knocking our airfields out instead of bombing civillian targets thay would also likely have won

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:23
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"
I think one of the most decisive campaigns was the victory in North Africa to secure oil"

Yup^^

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 11:23
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"If the Germans had directed their full air forces against us in the Battle of Britain we wouldn't have had a chance. It was only because they had so much of the air force taken up in Russia that we survived"

Towz lad, that's bollox.

Read some books please.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 11:24
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

How close were the ruskies to falling? Everything ive seen seem to suggest they were on the bones of their arse. Couldnt even give half their soldiers guns etc... Hitler was also not too far away from atom bombs as well and he was developing the methods to use them on missiles

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 11:27
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

towz, they weren't doing much fighting in Eastern Europe during the Battle of Britain. We beat them fair & square. Get used to it.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:28
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Towz - Operation Barbarossa began in the summer of 41 the Battle of Britain which ended in a British victory ended in the autumn of 40.

As Mick said your 'facts' are inaccurate.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:28
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Manfriday have you seen how big Russia is. The Germans didn't have the right equipment for the winter, just as Napoleon hadn't.

Hitler was an inadequate when it came to making military decisions, but most of the generals were too XXXXXX scared of him to stand up against him, because they knew they would be 'replaced'.

Genghis, I was a History student when I was 13 as well.

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:30
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

It was Hitler himself that prevented him bring on the winning side. The Germans had the best army, some of the best equipment and excellent Generals. Unfortuneatly for the Wehmarcht, Hitler took little notice of brilliant Generals. If he had, they would have conquered the USSR and with it ended the war.

Britain and its Empire would have had no choice but seek peace. The thing is, Hitler wanted that with this country too. He saw the Empire as living proof of the dominance of the ayran race. It also helped that Germans and English are very similar blood wise.

As someone said, the battle for Stalingrad was key. The German Army never fully recovered from that.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:30
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Interesting point Manfriday I think what makes WWII so special is the timing, there's no doubt Hitler would have used the A-bomb had he the opportunity to do so...

Peaking 5 years before technological advancement possibly saved the world from oblivion.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Genghis, the Russians who died didn't 'delay the inevitable', they helped to win the war, ffs!![rle]

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 11:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Hitler was going down the completely wrong route with his A-Bomb anyway, they were trying to use heavy water and not enriched Uranium weren't they?

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 11:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Well if russia is that big you would think they could have built more munitions factories :) seriously though, could a country the size of russia ever be beaten? Without the use of A bombs of course

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 11:33
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

As I said if they had concentrated on the airfields they would have won anyway. If they had diverted more resources away from the east and concentrated on Britian they would doubtlessly have succeeded

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:35
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The Russians were ultimately saved by the American Lend Lease system. The Yanks provided them with vast amounts of vehicles, guns, ammo and other equipment.

It was enough to give them breathing space to mobilise a massive weapons programme.

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 11:36
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

It's a myth that the Germans were close to developing an atomic bomb. They made it a low priority because it would not have been ready when they needed it.

BTW the Nazis liked Muslims because they made good soldiers (according to Himmler, I think). There were 2 Muslim SS Divisions.

Electricman Posted on 24/09/2009 11:36
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Its all IFs!!!!

What to say if Hitler did do this and that, that we wouldnt of won anyway???? its a matter of opinion

Get used to it TWO WORLD WARS and ONE WORLD CUP DOO DAHHH

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:37
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

By the way, Britain's role in WW2 is often overplayed in this country.

Our main role was acting as a giant aircraft carrier for The Americans.

We played a insignificant role compared to them and The Russians.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:38
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Blitzkrieg is an underrated strategy... Small concentrated attacks allowed penetration of the line...

The problem with Hitler's tactics was his desire for actual land rather than power bases. He wanted to expand his nation to spread the Aryan race.

It also allowed for encircling of the front line tanks if the 'second front' were not close enough.

Hitler's aggression, lack of patience were his strength and his weakness... it is however a myth to suggest Hitler was close to winning the war, as soon as Usa was involved the result was inevitable.
h

ChrisPeaCock Posted on 24/09/2009 11:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The German supply lines where far to big to keep replenished once Hiltler opened up that front. Couple that with the Russian winter and Stalin moving his Siberian Divisions from the East when he knew that Japan was not going to invade the USSR, and the Germans where done for on the Eastern front. As for the Battle of Britain, we won it, and being an island Hitler turned his forces East, opened up a war on 2 fronts without having the man power to sustain both attacks.

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 11:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

towz, how many times do you have to be proved wrong before you admit it?

The_263 Posted on 24/09/2009 11:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Nero didn't we bomb that big rock using 663 squadron - that was a seminal moment too and one that should not be underplayed.

BTW: does Southgate have any blood-lines into the Hitler's? Both tactically inept [sad]

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 11:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I suppose nobody will ever know what technology germany had developed but i do know that there was a 3way scramble between us, america and russia to get their hands on as much of it as possible once we got into germany

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 11:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

IF the battle of Britain had been lost which apparently if they'd continued striking airfields instead of cities we would have.

The yanks wouldn't have gave two fuqs about us in 1942.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Towz, the Germans didn't have enough troops to keep pushing the boundries off their empire in all directions at the same time. If he had settled at conquering Poland, Scandanavia, Austria, Czechoslovakia, France, the Low Countries, Hungary etc and hooked up with the Fascists in Spain, Italy and Yugoslavia we could have had a Fascist Europe and he would have 'won' the war. But he was just a little bit crackers, allegedly, and had to go for the trophy of the USSR, and kept on attacking the UK until eventually the Yanks woke up once the Japanese had attacked some small islands in the middle of nowhere.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:41
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Towz that's simply not true... They 'did' concentrate their resources on the Battle of Britain... they knew that we had navy superiority after their losses in Norway ... They knew that they needed Air superiority - well 'we' won that battle... there seems to be a reluctance to accept what a major part we played in the war.

I've no idea why, we were the major fighting force for many years, vastly outnumbered but more than holding our own. Our mistake was trying to 'save' France so early.

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:43
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The_263,

No doubt we had some key moments and great victories, but ultimately, we wouldn't have stood a chance if it wasn't for the USA and USSR.

In fact and it's already been mentioned, once The Americans got involved it was game over for Nazi Germany.

The_263 Posted on 24/09/2009 11:44
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Those U-boats were as overated as Alves. Ask any Mercahnt seaman.

The_263 Posted on 24/09/2009 11:46
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Nero: A Lancaster Bomber whoosh!

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:46
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"Blitzkrieg is an underrated strategy... Small concentrated attacks allowed penetration of the line... "

That's not actually what blitzkrieg is. Blitzkrieg is 'total war'.

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 11:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

" If they had diverted more resources away from the east and concentrated on Britian they would doubtlessly have succeeded"

They were allies at that point - they didn't need resources in the East, the Germans and Russia had already carved up Poland.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 11:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Nero our main role in world war 2 was to be a giant aircraft carrier for the US? Was that before america joined the war halfway through?

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

If the German Generals had succeded in killing Hitler, they would never had attacked The Russians either.

At least, not at that moment in time.

Gillzeans description of Europe may well have been a reality.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:51
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Blitzkrieg is "a headline word applied retrospectively to describe a military doctrine of an all-mechanized force concentrating its attack on a small section of the enemy front then, once the latter is broken, proceeding without regard to its flank.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 11:51
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

From my understanding if the generals had killed Hitler they would have made peace with Britain. Most of them seemed fairly well reasoned and would have called off the madness of invading Russia.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 11:52
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

How closely were germany and japan working together? Was hitler briefed beforehand about pearl harbour and did he give them the go ahead knowing it would bring america into the war? Would germany and japan ultimately turn on each other once everyone else was dead?

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 11:52
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Manfriday,

Up until 1942 we were frantically trying to rearm ourselves and get into some type of fighting force.

The Battle of Britain allowed us to do that.

At the start of the war, Poland had a bigger army than us. This country did not and was not ready for another war.

The Battle of Britain and us sinking a couple of French battleships allowed us to hold out until America joined in.

Once that happened, D-Day wouldn't have happened if they couldn't use this Island.

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 11:54
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

This myth that Germany was a nation under Hitler's spell who didn't really wish to act in the manner they did, really must subside. They'd have just launched a coup d'etat if that was the case and it would have worked.

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 11:54
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Didn't a high ranking Nazi fly to Scotland towards the end of the war to try and broker peace with the British?

Can't remember who though, was it Hess?

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 11:57
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Regards Hess, just found out he flew on the eve of the invasion of Russia.

Obviously saw the enormity of the task and possibility that it may have ended in the defeat of the Germans.

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 12:01
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

What's this about the generals killing Hitler?

They didn't try until July 1944 - they were on their arse by then anyway.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:02
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

From Achtung Panzer.com (named after Gen Guderian's leaflet)
Blitzkrieg (lightning war/total war)

Airforce attacks enemy front-line and rear positions, main roads, airfields and communication centers. At the same time infantry attacks on the entire frontline (or at least at main places) and engages enemy. This restrains the enemy from knowing where the main force will attack and makes it impossible to prepare any defenses.

Concentrated tank units breakthrough main lines of defense and advance deeper into enemy territory, while following mechanized units pursuit and engage defenders preventing them from establishing defensive postions. Infantry continues to engage enemy to misinform and keep enemy forces from withdrawing and establishing effective defense.

Infantry and other support units attack enemy flanks in order to link up with other groups to complete the attack and eventually encircle the enemy and/or capture strategic position.

Mechanized groups spearhead deeper into the enemy territory outflanking the enemy positions and paralyzing the rear preventing withdrawing troops and defenders from establishing effective defensive positions.

Main force links up with other units encircling and cutting off the enemy.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 12:03
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I was not a history student, But my next door neighbour was commander of the 12th H.J.Panzer battalion and he says it was down to lack of supplies and to many solidiers that were not properly trained. Have sat down with my neighbour a few times over a couple of beers and swapped war stories,He hated hitler by the way.So coming from the horses mouth is better than a hundred books.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:04
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

mick,

There were a dozen or so attempts to kill Hitler.

Gillandi Posted on 24/09/2009 12:04
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The big mistake the Luftwaffe made in the early stages of the Battle Of Britain was switching it's attention to the city of London after initially, and successfully attacking our coastal radar and defensive installations. Radar won the BOB for us, they'd just about crippled us in the first weeks but then moved on to cause civillian terror, giving us the breathing space to get our systems operational again.

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 12:05
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

duisburg, does he have any stories of personal meetings with Hitler?

Gillandi Posted on 24/09/2009 12:08
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"There were a dozen or so attempts to kill Hitler."

There were probably a thousand attempts during the first World War...but Adolf was a bit nippy on his push-bike in them days. [^]


GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:11
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

He was on the sick for a fair bit of it[:D]

zaphod Posted on 24/09/2009 12:11
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The Luftwaffe attacked airfields & other strategic locations for 2 months with only occasional bombing of cities. They switched to bombing cities when the initial strategy didn't succeed.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 12:13
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

changingman He met hitler often because hitlers " right hand man " was his father, but once he was sent to russia he didnt see him anymore.

Rod100 Posted on 24/09/2009 12:13
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

he asked us to join him back in the day anyways.

king edward was a nazi sympathiser; the wallis simpson thing was a front used to oust him by the government to cover up his leanings towards the nazi's [;)]

rick4974 Posted on 24/09/2009 12:14
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Anybody been watching World War II: The Apocalypse on Nat Geo?

A great insight in to what people had to go through.

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 12:15
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

duisburg, which right hand man?

Genghis_Khan Posted on 24/09/2009 12:17
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I'm not sure what you disagree with Gilzean but the whole idea is that it's a concentrated attack in a small area then follow up quickly on the ground. Either way you clearly have a very poor understanding of WWII and the importance of our role.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 12:18
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

von ribbentrop, remember the nurnberg trials

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:18
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Genghis,

You really are a tool, aren't you?

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 12:20
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

zaphod, they switched tactics due to the belief that they had almost knocked out the RAF. It was shorsighted and arrogant. had they carried on bombing the airfields they would have undoubtedly gained the air superiority allowing them to bomb the Royal Navy out of the war and then invade Britain

littlejimmy Posted on 24/09/2009 12:20
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I read somewhere that another of Hitler's mistakes was to declare war on the USA just after Pearl Harbour, which then made it easier for Churchill to persaude FDR that the Germans and the European war should be the priority.

All fascinating stuff.

changingman Posted on 24/09/2009 12:21
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

yeah, thats really interesting. I take it from your username both he (and you) live in Duisburg.

Must be a fascinating character to speak to. An insight few will ever be able to achieve.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:23
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Blimey Steve, does he live in a castle??

Lefty Posted on 24/09/2009 12:24
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

While it is true that the general population of the U.S. were very much against entering the war, that was not true of Roosevelt.

Not only did he think that the Nazi's were morally repugnant, he realised that the US economy would come under threat by the Axis and conflict would come eventually.

It all boils down to oil once again.

The Japanese were expanding their Empire, they were desperate for resources, they wanted oil from the US oil companies. Roosevelt wouldn't allow it and this pushed the Japanese into the desperate folly that was Pearl Harbour.


Fletch Posted on 24/09/2009 12:25
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Too many 'Expert Historians' that know f*ck on this thread for my liking! [:(!]

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/09/2009 12:28
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

To answer the question, he came no where near winning the second ww.

If Churchill had lost the argument in Parliament in 1939,40 and 41, we may have had a peace pact, i.e subserviance to Germany, however he did win the argument.

Hitler did not have the capacity to keep on going, he started to lose the will of his own people during 1942.

If he had attacked the UK, it would have drawn in a huge amount of that capacity and then Stalin would likely of attacked from the eastern front.

The US entering the war ends any debate, they were simply superior in might and manpower.

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 12:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Roosevelt had serious reservations about giving supplies to Britain at one point. We were desperate and he didn't believe that we had it in us, so soon after WW1.

The singing of the French Battleship Brittania changed all that...

It was also the beginning of often frosty diplomatic relations with France.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:32
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

tsab,

Like I said earlier if he had stopped earlier he would have 'won' it. In much the same way we 'won' the First World War.

zoec Posted on 24/09/2009 12:35
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"It was also the beginning of often frosty diplomatic relations with France."

Not the beginning. That happened quite a few centuries before.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 12:36
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Steve is your neighbour called rudolf?

Amer_Out Posted on 24/09/2009 12:37
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Dec 7, 1941. Once the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Hitler's days were numbered. Good thing too, the evil b******.

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 12:43
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

For those who have seen the film Starship Troopers, that was based on a future where Nazi Germany won the war.

Bit far fetched like!!

Rod100 Posted on 24/09/2009 12:44
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

the 80's Tv show "V" was based around the nazi holocaust etc too.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 24/09/2009 12:48
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Wars are won by armed forces and SUPPLIES.
Britain and Russia were supplied from the USA via the Atlantic and Arctic convoys.
There were two periods during the war when we were perilously close to losing the battle of the Atlantic and would have been starved of food and armaments and subsequently D Day and the Russian advances couldn't have happened. Had Hitler increased the U Boat fleet as requested by Doenitz before we developed effective anti submarine techniques he could have won the supply war and with it perhaps the entire war

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 12:49
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Seems like he would be full of stories regarding the war


Link: Achtung baby

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 12:50
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

changingman,gillz,friday,
he lives in a villa on my bosses estate which after the second world war was used by the british as HQ.
he has written a book trying to justify that his father was only doing as hitler told him, obviously if he had dissagreed he would of been topped.
my bosses father had to move out of the villa when the brits occüpied it so he hated us The same day that the brit HQ was moved to moncengladbach his father let the bulldozers flatten the house and built a new one on the same spot.
yes manfriday he is rudolph.
the book is very heavy reading and if it sells ok it will be written or translated next year into english, ive got my copie signed and dated[:D]

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 12:57
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Easy ton.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/09/2009 13:02
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

They could have won it yes.

The best chance they had to force a truce with Britain was to crush the BEF at Dunkirk, which they could have done easily.

An invasion was never on the cards though, because the facts are they had nothing to counter the Royal Navy. Simple as that. They never had a chance of total air superiority as in the worst case scenario, we’d have pulled back our fighters to airfields outside of their fighter range.
Most German fighters only had a window of about ten minutes once over UK soil.

Even with partial air superiority they couldn’t have bombed the royal navy out of the water in a day. They’d have crushed any German naval presence and supplies.

They had plenty of chances to kill off the Soviet Union, even after Stalingrad. If Hitler had listened to his generals and allowed a more flexible defence instead of a static defensive line they easily could have wiped out the Soviets army.

Throughout the war the kill tally of German troops to Soviet ones was like 11 to 1 because most Soviet troops were simple conscripts.

The kill ratio between allied troops and Axis troops was more even because both sides troops were trained.

Lefty Posted on 24/09/2009 13:11
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

'Roosevelt had serious reservations about giving supplies to Britain at one point. We were desperate and he didn't believe that we had it in us, so soon after WW1.'

True. The whole world expected us to fall, so it was prudent not to antagonise the likely victor who you were going to have to deal with.

However once we stood firm through the Battle of Britain in 1940, Roosevelt started to actively take our side. In April 41 they started to protect the North Atlantic Convoys. This was before Hitler invaded Russia in June 1941. In August 1941 Roosevelt and Churchill met in the middle of the Atlantic to draft the Atlantic Charter, which set out their vision for the post WW2 world and has formed the basis for most of the international agreements, laws and organisations we have today. This was still 4 months before Pearl Harbour.

The American people were still very much against entering the war right up to Pearl Harbour, witness the huge appeal of Charles Lindberg as evidence. How fortuitous fortuitous for Roosevelt that the Japanese made the crazy catastrophic error of attacking the US like it did.

Or was it the sort of fortune Bismarck had with the Ems telegram?

joshie Posted on 24/09/2009 13:27
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The Moscow Option by ? Eddings is a good alternate second world war, it tells the story of the war with Hitler keeping on going towards Moscow instead of diverting his forces south.

Whoever raised the point about the Japanese and the far east raises a good point. IF the Japanese had attacked in Siberia, the russians would have kept their crack eastern divisions there. These divisions ultimately saved the Russian army and the fronts defending Moscow from utter collapse.

It is debatable if taking Moscow would have finished the Russians off but other than its propaganda value it was also the main hub for roads and rail north and south, which would have created tremendous difficulty in transferring men and materials between fronts for the russians.


GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 13:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I don't think the Germans could have ultimately controlled Russia, they would be too restrained by lack of men. The Ruskis hated the Nazis too much and would have made a horrible guerilla force, far more than the French[8D]

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 13:37
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

SteveDuisburg - so your neighbour was in the 12th SS Panzer Hitlerjugend?

Right nasty bunch they were. I wouldn't read what they got up to if I was you.

Amer_Out Posted on 24/09/2009 13:41
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

This thread seems to be addressing how close Hitler came to successfully invading Britain as opposed to the original question, how close was he to winning the world war. Fact is he was never close to winning the world war.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 14:25
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Amer, if by that you mean how close was he to taking over the world, then yes, it was going to be a long time before the swastika flew over Easter Island.

Amer_Out Posted on 24/09/2009 14:28
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Wonder if he ever had his eyes on South Georgia.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:09
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Mick, My neighbour is a very likeable person and what you read in a book is always "gloryfied" to help sell.
most of his soldiers were 16-20 years old and he was very proud what a group of kids "his words" achieved, he also said how the russians sent soldiers to attack his positions who were also in the same age group.after an attack when bodies were searched and i.d. found 16 year olds killing 16 year olds.
The falklands war was the same except our youngest were 18 the argies had conscripts 16 years old.
going off the point of the disscusion know
sorry.

flaps Posted on 24/09/2009 15:19
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Not gonna read this thread but once he declared war on the Soviet Union he had no chance.

And, even if he hadn't, they probably would have declared war on him.

So, ultimately, no chance.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 15:21
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Steve, are german people ashamed or embarrassed about the war? When i went to berlin years ago i found that people over 40 were really nice and couldnt be more helpful to english people whereas people under 40 were rude and obnoxious to non germans. I expected it to be the other way round to be honest

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 15:22
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"My neighbour is a very likeable person"

He was in the SS!!!!! Fair enough if he was a Wehrmacht officer (even many of them committed attrocities on the Eastern Front)

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 15:24
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Those Hitler Youth were crackers, thank God none of them hold positions of power these days[:I]

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:29
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Friday got no probs with no one there is the chav element who dislike every one else.
i get the feeling that everybody would like to forget about it , but every day on tv there is always something over the war

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 15:33
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

How do germans feel about the jewish memorial site in Berlin being built less than 50 yards from where hitler died? Its a bit of an eyesore to be honest, just cubes of concrete

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:34
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

towz i didnt say my neighbour didnt do any thing nasty , but he doesnt go around bragging about it. dont forget british soldiers or other nationalities are also not angel,s in a war situation a person is very diffrent

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 15:35
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I think that concrete is granite actually and it's meant to be quite haunting inside it.

it does look weird though.

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 15:37
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"towz i didnt say my neighbour didnt do any thing nasty , but he doesnt go around bragging about it. dont forget british soldiers or other nationalities are also not angel,s in a war situation a person is very diffrent"

Fair point Steve. Actually would be really interested to talk to a German war vet as I only got my grandad's sides of the stories. I suppose everyone did what they thought was right at the time. History is written by the victor

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

friday most of my friends in my age group 45 find the memorial a total waste of money and space, a normal sized memorial would of done the job, every one apart from the jews want to forget the past.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 15:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

When i was there they were still building it and our flat overlooked the site. We all thought it was a building site and a new way to erect buildings. The jewish museum is a bit haunting like

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 15:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

SteveDuisburg - his "kids" shot 140 Canadian POW's in Normandy.

They were loons.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:40
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

towz[^]

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:43
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

mick if it was an order then they had 2 choices do it or be shot self. i wouldnt want to die[rle]

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 15:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

They wouldn't need ordering - that lot were brainwashed fanatics.

Don't know how your neighbour can be proud of them.

flaps Posted on 24/09/2009 15:48
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

POWs generally don't have guns Steve.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 15:49
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Flaps, i dont think he was implying the POWs would shoot them.....

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 15:52
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

[cr][cr]

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:52
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

mick we were talking about the siege of stalingrad where he was commander of the panzer brigade he was not in charge in normandy

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 15:54
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Well he's not about to tell you his lads shot allied POW's is he?

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 15:57
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

mick in the siege of stalingrad how many pows did the germans shoot about as many as the russians did i supose, i dont really know im just guessing just like u?

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 16:02
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Oh aye - the Russians and Germans were as bad as each other.

I'm just saying that I've read quite a bit on the war and your neighbour's lads were considered elite troops but they were utter brainwashed psychos. The Nazi way of life was all they'd known.

towz Posted on 24/09/2009 16:06
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Been reading up on your neighbour, quite a man. Shame he fought on the 'wrong' side but you can't deny his bravery and skill

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:13
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

He was shot a few times as well as picking up a number of shrapnel wounds according to wiki

stump_hole_lover Posted on 24/09/2009 16:19
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Mick,
It was a totally differnent era and who knows what you or I would of done in those circumstances. And indeed, what some of our forefathers did in the name of war.
Great thread this, ones like this really make this board, just wish there were more like it.
Steve, really envy your opportunity to speak to old Rudolph, living history.

SteveDuisburg Posted on 24/09/2009 16:21
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

he still goes shooting after deer
very fit for a 90+ veteran.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:23
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

88yr old veteran :)

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 24/09/2009 16:25
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I've been to the Jewish memorial, if it does nothing else it raises debate. When you get into the middle, where the blocks are around 12ft high and they block out the sun, it's quite harrowing, a bit like a shadow hanging over you...interpret that as you will.....

Did you know there is no physical marker to indicate where Hitler died [;)]

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 16:29
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

stump_hole_lover - you can't compare the SS to British conscripts.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 16:30
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Steve, most of the atrocities the Russians performed on the Germans were as a result of hearing of the atrocities committed by the Germans during their invasion of Mother Russia, which was undoubtedly stirred up by the Red media machine.

These things have happened for millenia in war and who knows what you would do in their situation? God willing you will never find out.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:35
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I know humpty but we did a bit of homework and found the area where there is now a carpark/5 a side pitch

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 16:38
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler in terms of atrosities.

He ordered the shooting of 20,000 Polish Officers for a start. That's not to mention the millions of Soviet Citizens he murdered in the years before the war.

Hitler was bad, Stalin was no better.

An interesting fact about the Nazi "Jewish Problem" was that they originally didn't plan on The Final Solution. They were going to send millions of European Jews into exile in Madagascar.

It's unclear why they changed their mind and went down the mass genocide route.

NedKat Posted on 24/09/2009 16:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Stalin thought Hitler would invade Britain before he came after Russia. Hitler invaded Russia thinking Britain wasn't far from finished, and he didn't believe the US would enter the war.

We were lucky, but we were victorious !! Plus, I definitely believe the British people would not have rolled over if they were invaded. They would have mounted a guerilla war an atrition and constant sabotage.

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 16:39
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I'm in Berlin in two weeks im going to fine it and p!ss on him!


GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 16:42
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Nero,

From an accountants' perspective, genocide is cheaper than deportation to Madagascar, which seems a very random destination. Have you actually just made that up?

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:42
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Towell its on the opposite side of the memorial to the gate. Just look for the 5 a side pitch

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 16:43
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The holocaust memorial?

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 16:45
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Surely you should celebrate where he died, his bones obviously aren't there, btw.

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 16:46
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I know the ruskies did something with them no one knows.

VonBrock Posted on 24/09/2009 16:46
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

As a reply to the initial post could russia have beaten German on its own. Without Britain or Americas assistance. I think they were always destined to win it.

Modern history is becoming kinder to Russias contribution. They had some very good equipment such as the T-34.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Yeah. Unless you were saying you were gonna XXXXXX on the holocaust memorial lol. Humpty, what is underground at the memorial? As i said they were still building it when i was there but there was a tunnel going down underneath it

Towell Posted on 24/09/2009 16:49
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

That's the actual museum isn't it eh underground bit?

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 16:51
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Think the Jewish Museum is somewhere else, an odd shaped building, a bit wacky and thought provoking, but not underground.

Nero Posted on 24/09/2009 16:54
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

GillZean,

I've not made it up! [smi]

It was stated in a book I read on Auschwitz. I can't remember the name now. Very interesting, moving and shocking at the same tme.

Manfriday Posted on 24/09/2009 16:56
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Yeah the museum is a 20 minute walk away. There is probably still some sort of museum under the memorial

NedKat Posted on 24/09/2009 17:31
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

There's a Holocaust museum in St Petersburg. I wandered thru it one day, and the sites of what happened to those poor people could bring a tear to the strongest eyes. There's a actual railcar which was used to transport people to Auschwitz. When they were cleaning it, they found a tiny child's ring embedded in the dirt ...

appletonlesmog Posted on 24/09/2009 17:56
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The memorial to the murdered Jews of Europe is amazing inside.
It follows the stories of large family groups from throughout Europe, and traces the lives and deaths of each member, with original documentation to back it up. Some of the most harrowing docs are notes that were found near mass graves, or thrown from the wagons en route to the camps.
When I went there was a Holocaust survivor going round - they were absolutely in bits by the end. A profoundly disturbing experience, and without doubt the most moving exhibition I have ever seen - as well as an outstanding piece of historical archival research.

As for the war: the big H can blame Mussolini - around the time of Stalingrad, Italian forces were getting battered by partisans and Allies in Greece, so Hitler had to divert one of his armies from the Eastern Front to go and sort it out. As a result, the Russians were able to force the Germans back. If German reinforcements had arrived, the Russians would have been screwed. I think the figure for Russian total dead is about 20 mil, but the military bodycount somwhere in the region of 10 mil.
Good job Mussolini was a chump!

Rupert Posted on 24/09/2009 17:57
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Hitlers arse nipped when he seen the RAF shooting down his german bombers .......after that he knew they weren't hard enough to take us on. pack of fannys

Smoggle Posted on 24/09/2009 18:00
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Some very interesting debate on this thread.

I don't think there can be any certainties, but the war did seem to hinge on some key elements.

In Europe the British did play a major part, we may not have been able to win it on our own, but to underestimate the contribution is a disservice. The Russians have already been discussed in detail, but they certainly helped turn the tide, most famously at Stalingrad. I do however believe that invading Britain would be a logistic nightmare... a large population, massive conurbations, many small urban centres to fight through, knowing the conditions, etc all add up to a big task for an invading force.

People forget that America also wasn't best prepared - many soldiers we're raw and weren't ready for immediate frontline fighting; the Japanese failing to destroy American aircraft carriers helped America keep a major presence in the Pacific... i've read that the West Coast of the US was poorly defended and if Pearl Harbour had gone as intended then it could have been an invasion point for the Japanese - although i'm dubious of the Japanese capability and logistics to carry this out, at least in 1942... although in theory if an invasion force had landed you have vast swathes of open land to push into to gain a toehold - urban warfare like in much of Europe may be largely avoidable.

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 24/09/2009 18:19
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Manfriday, part of what is thought to be Goebbels offices were located under the jewish memorial....they just built over it. Quite ironic really that the jewish quarter is where it is.

Muttley Posted on 24/09/2009 18:27
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Some good points on here but the main reason Hitler was never going to win the war was tied up with the reason he started it... he was a nutter.

No-one sane would have acted in the way he did. It's no good saying if he'd listened to his Generals he'd have gone for the Caucasus rather than Stalingrad, if he'd listened to his Generals he would never have gone to war at all. Many of them thought it was madness to attack Poland.

Smoggie_in_Exile Posted on 24/09/2009 18:47
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

the other thing you have to remember is that Hitlers generals are pretty unreliable witnesses. Basically their version of events was that all the German successes up to 1941 were because of the generals and all the failures after that were Hitlers fault.

As for hitlers body after he shot and poisoned himself his corpse was burned in the reichstag garden. Then the corpse was captured by the russkies and if I recall correctly they kept his charred corpse until the 70s when with the exception of his jaw bone which some KGB bloke kept as a souvenir, it was flushed down the sewers in some german town.

NedKat Posted on 24/09/2009 18:58
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

So far we have ...

1. Russia buggered him up in Stalingrad.
2. Mussolini blew it.
3. He didn't want to fight us Brits.
4. The Luftwaffe wasn't as strong as he thought.
5. He didn't listen to his generals.
6. He didn't think the USA would enter the war.
7. He was a nutter.

Any more ?

foggysfplandiet2 Posted on 24/09/2009 18:58
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"In 1940 our Spitfire's and our Lanacaster Bombers were too much of a threat to Adolf"

The Lancaster entered service in 1942, so no.

I've always been under the impression that Hitler had two gilt-edged chances to defeat Britain but blew them both; the first at Dunkirk when they could have trapped almost the entire British army but they let them get away through the Dunkirk Evacuation, and the second during the Battle of Britain when Hitler and Goering switched bombing away from RAF airfields to London. Had they carried on attacking the RAF conventional wisdom is that the Luftwaffe would have won and Britain would then have been very vulnerable without an airforce.

If Hitler was going to win the war it would have been in 1940. The US would probably have never declared war on Germany but come to a settlement with Hitler. Hitler could then have turned on Russia probably without interference from the US.

Chances are Hitler would have installed a puppet government in Britain under Oswald Moseley. There's been a lot of speculation that Edward VIII would have been restored to the throne; George VI and the Queen would probably have fled to Canada and a UK government formed in exile. Churchill was top of an execution list.

No doubt Britain's Jews would have been slaughtered.

Thank God the egotistical little thug lost the war.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 24/09/2009 19:01
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

I didn't think it was proven what happened to hitlers body. Different ruskies have said different things.

It's simply a massive chain of events that stopped them winning the war.

GillZean Posted on 24/09/2009 19:02
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Is 'egotistical little thug' the best you can come up with to describe one of the biggest mass murderers of all time? I bet mickbrown wouldn't even go for a pint with him, unless he had some tenuous Bolt-On connection, of course.

joshie Posted on 24/09/2009 19:29
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Gillzean, it is a bit of a cop out to blame russian atrocities on what the germans were already doing. What about the Russians slaughtering 25000 poles in the Katyn forest? They were equally as bad as the germans from day one, Stalin was equally as much a meglomaniac evil dictator as hitler.

Mao was probably worse than the pair of em.

mickbrown Posted on 24/09/2009 20:01
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"I bet mickbrown wouldn't even go for a pint with him, unless he had some tenuous Bolt-On connection, of course."

Funny you should mention that. When I was a kid, the girl who used to babysit for us - her mum was Hitler's cousin. No shít.


sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 24/09/2009 20:04
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

if hitler had invaded britain he would have got his arse kicked. they played out a war game. hitler lost. its a lot harder to invade an island than invade france.

Donny_Boro Posted on 24/09/2009 20:08
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

The battle of britain was 1940. Hitler didn't invade Russia until 1941.
Hence this is incorrect.

HolgateCorner Posted on 24/09/2009 20:11
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?


He came nowhere near winning it and never would have done.

His eventual defeat was inevitable, he did well to hang it out for 5 years.

He was spread too thin, he had no chance.

A complete nutter.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 24/09/2009 20:17
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

probably the closest he came to winning was when chamberlain got the boot.
the 2 candidates for prime minister were Halifax and Churchill. Halifax was the establishment choice and an appeaser.

Amer_Out Posted on 24/09/2009 20:27
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

It must be said, however, that the Allies may not have won had it not been for those extra seven minutes.

hot2frot Posted on 24/09/2009 20:44
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?


Top thread [^]

Ive asked a german chum to take a look n see if he wants to add another perspective

Finest_Hour Posted on 24/09/2009 22:59
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Of course Britain played a key role in defeating Hitler in the Second World War,Stalin always knew Hitler would turn against him, he just didn't know when. Without us winning the Battle of Britain, the USSR would have been f***ed. Without Anglo-American help the Russians would never have survived...the supplies the recieved from the Arctic Convoys was vital to Russian survival...deny this and you obviously know little or nothing about the History of WWII!

However, why the Allies won the War is a complex story, simply because of the fact so many factors account for it, but it is clearly a combination of superior human and material resources. Whilst it is blatently obvious Britain COULD NOT have won without American Aid - it is equally as obvious that the Western Allies could not have won without the enormous sacrifices of the Red Army and the people of Russia.

After the War, Stalin himself recalled how 'in the cause of victory Britain had supplied the time, America the money and Russia the blood' - there is definatley a lot of truth in this.


Grumpy_Paul Posted on 25/09/2009 00:00
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

So many good, relevant and interesting points on this thread but going back to my post I believe the most crucial point was resource and supply, if the troops didn't have the equipment they couldn't do the job no matter how good they may have been

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 25/09/2009 00:13
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"Many of them thought it was madness to attack Poland"

Yes, but if they hadn't we'd never have had one of the funniest lines ever in a TV comedy. Also, if they'd won the war, at least we'd all be cheering for the winning team in penalty shoot-outs.

Seriously for a mo, we held them off in 1940. If that hadn't happened and they'd invaded, I think we'd have struggled to hold them off. Hitler put off Sea Lion and turned his attention to Russia. If has has been said, he viewed Stalingrad as a prize and went for that when he should have went for the oil fields, then that was a costly mistake, as was declaring war on the USA after Pearl Harbour. Once the yanks joined in, Hitler's fate was sealed.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 25/09/2009 00:24
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Hitler could not have Succeeded with Sealion, the Royal Navy was simply too strong at the time

The_263 Posted on 25/09/2009 07:36
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

"In 1940 our Spitfire's and our Lanacaster Bombers were too much of a threat to Adolf"

The Lancaster entered service in 1942, so no.

The number of whooshes on this thread must be on a par with the blitz.

hot2frot Posted on 25/09/2009 07:56
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?


ok

heres the first bit of input from a Berliner chum of mine




there is this one reply
were they asked if you would have spoken german

i say YES You would have
not like two mins after the peace treaty was signed
but eventually hitler would have brought german to your school there they would have learned
it
plus you would have opened a party like the NSDAP and so on
it would have been done but slowly

it happened in east germany too
the russian brought their socialism and in school you had to learn russian
slowly but steadily the winner would have brought the customs and language to the looser

Manfriday Posted on 25/09/2009 09:08
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Smoggy in exile, from what i remember, hitlers body was indeed burned by his own staff but this happened in the grounds next to the entrance of his bunker rather than the gardens of the reichstag which is a good 10 minute walk away. I think the russians were already as far into berlin as the reichstag when he topped himself. He ordered his body be burnt so the russians couldnt use it as propaganda like they did with other high ranking nazis (goerring rings a bell)

zaphod Posted on 25/09/2009 09:14
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

Why would we have ended up speaking German? The Soviets occupied Eastern Europe for 40 odd years & enforced the teaching of Russian in schools, but the local populace carried on speaking their native languages.

Manfriday Posted on 25/09/2009 09:15
How close did Hitler come to winning the 2nd world war?

My mistake, its the fat italian im thinking of