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borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 13:31
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Whatís your take on this,( racists or Muslims donít bother replying, your views are worthless.)
For my part this is a step in the right direction, for too long being anti-Muslim (which I am) has been linked with being racist( which I am not).
It took hundreds of years for this and other civilised, educated and forward looking counties to remove organised religion from the political arena and in the space of a few years muslimomumbojumboist have made it a near crime to voice dissent against this misogynistic medieval cult.
If it gets you through the day to believe in fairy tales thatís fine but I am not evil because I donít agree with you.
Dont be fooled that this is a racist issue, just because a heck of a lot of racist involve themselves in the issue it doesnt make the issue racist.After all Yussef Islam is a muslim, if I dont agree with him does that make me racist?
Its about personal freedom, freedom that is not practised in cult ridden backward muslim states.
Its about being tollerant of everything other than intollerance.
Bring it on. [^]



Link: Stop

Holgate_Hero Posted on 13/09/2009 13:32
Stop the Islamisation of europe

[:D]

ton here we come

Towell Posted on 13/09/2009 13:36
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Whoever writes the articles on that can't even spell.

littlejimmy Posted on 13/09/2009 13:36
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I need some popcorn.

FrozenHorse Posted on 13/09/2009 13:38
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Everyone's free to pick their own religion. If a majority choose Islam, well that is their business. It doesn't need to be "stopped".

The overlap between state and religeon is a problem: were the majority of Britains to be muslim, should Britain become an Islamic state? It is clear to me that isn't necessary: Turkey is overwhelmingly Islamic, but is run as a secular democracy.

Everyone must be free to choose their own religeon, but no one must have the right to impose that religeon on anyone else.

Lupin Posted on 13/09/2009 13:41
Stop the Islamisation of europe

How about 'Starting The Europeanisation Of Islam' instead ?

According to Wikipeadia; "The word Islam is a homo-graph", which says it all really. Why do we need a chart telling us this information ?

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 13:42
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Frozen Horse, my point exactly, but it is inherent in almost all religions to spread the word, in some religions this is taken to the extreme.

TMG501 Posted on 13/09/2009 13:43
Stop the Islamisation of europe

when I open that link, it closes down safari on my mac [?]


borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 13:48
Stop the Islamisation of europe

TMG501,
try to copypaste this

http://sioe.wordpress.com/

FrozenHorse Posted on 13/09/2009 13:49
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"but it is inherent in almost all religions to spread the word, in some religions this is taken to the extreme."

I've no problem with anyone trying to evangelise their religeon, not even the extreme Christians who used to get themselves locked up in York for their own protection on Saturday nights (they used to accost me and other drinkers, telling us we were going to burn. Inevitably some took exception to it).

I do worry about any one religeon becomming too influential in the legal or political system of a country (though it would be naive to think Christianity hasn't profoundly shaped ours). However, the example of Turkey proves that Islam doesn't have to exert control over politics and law.

mr_maz Posted on 13/09/2009 13:55
Stop the Islamisation of europe

hmm stop the link between Religion and politics.... I can really see that happening in the US

privatepile75 Posted on 13/09/2009 13:55
Stop the Islamisation of europe

if you go further east than turkey you will see that Islam does exert control over politics and law.

turkeys human rights record is not squeaky clean either.

ZappBrannagan Posted on 13/09/2009 14:03
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"muslimomumbojumboist"

Wow! Look at that - word of the day for me. Even if it is spelt wrong.

All I saw was a bunch of fat twunts who are probably well known to the police spoiling for a fight with 'the darkies'. If they think they are the defenders of the cross, and politically revolutionary they are wrong.

Why are so many people scared of Muslim communities? How do any of them affect the majority of us on a daily basis?

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 13/09/2009 14:04
Stop the Islamisation of europe

It is at least split out in the US constitution. Whilst it's an underlying issue in every policy or decision, it was only really Bush that so overtly used religion in his administration.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 14:10
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"How do any of them affect the majority of us on a daily basis?"
Not too many, and Id like to keep it that way thank you.
Oh, and how can I misspell a word I made up?[:P]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 13/09/2009 14:15
Stop the Islamisation of europe

First of all, Islam isn't a race, it's a religion, so being ant-Islam is not necessarily in itself racist. The Nazis tried to justify their persecution of the Jews on the basis that they are a race, not just a religion.

For me personally, I'm not anti-Islam, though I am strongly against extremist Muslims - ie the ones who believe in Jihad against the west and that westerners are "infidels. A while back, our diversity officer at work put some articles about the world's different religions on the intranet site. On the section about Islam, there were a lot of positive things about their faith. It's not rank and file muslims that we should have an issue with. It's the extremists who try to twist things that are the problem.

ZappBrannagan Posted on 13/09/2009 14:16
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Too many syllables. It was a cracking effort, but in keeping with the laws of the English language the IOE is trying to save, it should be:

muslim-mumbojumboists

or as an ideology...

muslim-mumbojumboism

[;)]

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 14:18
Stop the Islamisation of europe

ZAPP I stand corrected [ref]

PTCFT, absolutly, I come from catholic stock, my wife is a believer I'm not, we agree to disagree.

Peachy Posted on 13/09/2009 14:26
Stop the Islamisation of europe

the problem is when muslims see the state our city centres are in from 9pm - 3am 3 or 4 times a week. When they see gangs of chavs gathered at street corners drinking booze and abusing people. Do we really expect them to have much respect for us ? This is part of the problem, society is crumbling and I honestly can't blame a lot of decent moderate muslims for thinking our society is totally bankrupt.

ZappBrannagan Posted on 13/09/2009 14:29
Stop the Islamisation of europe

And when the very people who are threatening them at their places of worship are the same group of people who are in our city centres from 9pm-3am 3-4 times a week....

zaphod Posted on 13/09/2009 14:33
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt, how do you propose to stop people choosing to be Muslim? Persecution, maybe? Making it illegal to be a Muslim? Higher taxes for Muslims, like some Muslim countries used to do to Christians? Closing down mosques?

It's a free country. No thought police here.


boro_exile Posted on 13/09/2009 14:35
Stop the Islamisation of europe

this smacks of 'muslimmumbojumbojingoism'

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 15:44
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Zaphod, I spent quite some time dealing with your driveling just to go off line and lose it.
I suspect your religious, and so have a closed mind to other opinions.
Im happy to tollerate anything but intollerance, your post frankly, is 8ollocks.[:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P]

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 13/09/2009 15:51
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Zaphod - So it`s ok that Muslim countries persecuted Christians? Why so?


viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 16:00
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Tony Blair took the decision to take us to war in Iraq, illegally, after consulting with various spin-doctors and energy companies before allowing God and his 'personal faith' to decide, a faith he kept very quiet about until he left office.

He therefore killed thousands and thousands of people whilst trying to use God as a cover up with regards to his WMD lies. He used religion as an excuse to wage war, some Muslim extremists will do the same, most won't.

Stop the nonsense with regards to Islam, it's very immature. It's not just other countries who exploit and use religion to suit their own agenda, we've done it and it continues to happen everywhere so why focus on one specific group?

There is a lot more to worry about within British politics, you'd be better trying to get some of that sorted out first.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:05
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Rodney, Iím afraid Zaphod is the sort of person who turns an argument on its head.
Whilst my post is about stopping an intolerant belief system, he infers that it is I who wants to threaten freedom by criticising a dictatorial medieval cult who harbours within it anti western, anti democratic Kaffurphobics.
The point earlier about decent Muslims looking at our city centres and questioning our "culture" is bang on, Iím not claiming any moral high ground for our society.
Zaphod, a question, are you a Muslim?

Thornaby_Boro Posted on 13/09/2009 16:12
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Viv Andersons Nana,

I reckon you have a beard.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 16:14
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Thornaby_Boro- Why do you say that?

Arthur_Chestnut Posted on 13/09/2009 16:14
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Peachy wrote: he problem is when muslims see the state our city centres are in from 9pm - 3am 3 or 4 times a week. When they see gangs of chavs gathered at street corners drinking booze and abusing people. Do we really expect them to have much respect for us ? This is part of the problem, society is crumbling and I honestly can't blame a lot of decent moderate muslims for thinking our society is totally bankrupt.



Peachy, most Muslim ran countries are the most inept and corrupt I have ever seen. From illegal police, child prostitution, and Islamic scholars and so called peers paying for sex with adults and children.
If you want breakdown of a country and its people, research the Middle East, its all there.

The UK has its fair share of issues, but in comparison to the rest of the world, we are Utopia.

Holgate_Hero Posted on 13/09/2009 16:21
Stop the Islamisation of europe

trotters and arthur hazelnut are here now so this will get to a ton no probs now [:D] [^]

Hercules Posted on 13/09/2009 16:22
Stop the Islamisation of europe

The irony of preaching about tolerance after admitting in your opening post that you are 'anti-Muslim'. Perhaps you could qualify what anti-Muslim means?

Arthur_Chestnut Posted on 13/09/2009 16:25
Stop the Islamisation of europe

The easiest and best solution to Islam in the UK, is to control it. No mosques, no Sharia law, no arranged marriages. Treat it as you would treat a cult religion.

Harse_Holes Posted on 13/09/2009 16:25
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Within 70-100 years if not sooner you grandkids will be living in the islamic republic of great britain. you mark my words

Holgate_Hero Posted on 13/09/2009 16:30
Stop the Islamisation of europe

[:D] ffs!

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:32
Stop the Islamisation of europe

With a lot (but in no way all) of religions the involvement of an individual is by that individualís choice.
The Muslim "faith" is oppressive, misogynistic, aggressive, an overtly anti-democratic system and based on a time that disappeared long ago.
Some of these characteristics are shared by other religions but non-so clearly as this brand of hogwash.
To be anti-Muslim can sit very well with being a tolerant individual.
Tell be is being anti- Hitler being intolerant? Nope? Thought not.

Hercules Posted on 13/09/2009 16:38
Stop the Islamisation of europe

How do you know Islam is all those things you say it is? Have you ever read the Koran(Sp) or spoke at length with many Muslims about Islam?

Disliking Hitler is completely different. You are not pre-judging Hitler as you know alot of facts about him and the type of person he was.

Seen as though you have failed to elaborate on what anti-Muslim means to you I'll give you what I take it to mean. It sounds to me like you dislike all Muslims, even before you have laid eyes on them. That is prejudice based on somebody's religion.

Having read that link, the writer really needs to learn how to spell.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 16:44
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Its really funny.

The people who spout this anti muslim stuff don't actually know any muslims.

I have known a few and worked with a few, all sound lads and got on well with them.

They didn't ask for anything out of the ordinary and were a pleasure to know and i played 5 a side with a fair few on many an occasion.

I don't see what the problem is.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:44
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I am anti-muslim, i dont need to know an individual be anti an organised belief system

Oh, and phuck off with the spelling jibes, "Hwo do you know...) isnt a very good way to start a spelling critique,[smi]
Oh! perhaps the author didn't have the beifit of an edit like yourself.

"I played 5 a side with some muslins and they were OK" well thats the most ignorant and bigotted statement on this whole post.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 16:47
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Being anti-Muslim is racist, no doubt. Being anti-Muslim or anti-Islam is very closed minded. Yes, a vocal minority take Islam to extremes, and threin lies the problem, but tarring all followers of Islam with the same brush is like saying you are anti-Christian because of the IRA.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 16:48
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt- are you anti-Judaism as well?


borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:50
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Im anti all organised religion.
Can I ask you holy Joes( of whatever perversion) to leave so we freethinkers can discuss grown up issues please.[:D]

Youll be getting your dolls and pins out shortly.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 16:50
Stop the Islamisation of europe

""I played 5 a side with some muslins and they were OK" well thats the most ignorant and bigotted statement on this whole post."

Don't be so ridiculous. [:o)]

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:52
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Shouldn't it be 'Islamification' rather then 'Islamisation'?


Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 16:53
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Can I ask you holy Joes( of whatever perversion) to leave so we freethinkers can discuss grown up issues please."

Ironic how people who claim to be free-thinkers can't tolerate people making their own belief choices.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 16:54
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Old_Gregg[^]

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 16:58
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Old Greg, read the whole post you lazy get.
Whoopee, you got a thumbs up from another frightend little religiot[smi]

It always amazes me how you can dress up falling hook line and sinker for every thing written by power hungry religiopolitians in a little book a 1000 years ago and then decribed it as making your "own choice"
Safety in numbers more like, for frightened mental midgets.
Cowards of your own Consciousness!!!
( nice ring to that I thik Ill use it again)[smi][smi][smi][smi][smi][smi][smi]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 17:00
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Whoopee, you got a thumbs up from another frightend little religiot"

What does religiot mean? Why do you think i am frightened?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:00
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I am not religious, but im not anti religion in the sense i would force others to surrender their beliefs.

Holgate_Hero Posted on 13/09/2009 17:03
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt did a muslim butt-scuttle your missus?

is that why youre upset?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:04
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"I played 5 a side with some muslins and they were OK" well thats the most ignorant and bigotted statement on this whole post."

I actually said

'
I have known a few and worked with a few, all sound lads and got on well with them.

They didn't ask for anything out of the ordinary and were a pleasure to know and i played 5 a side with a fair few on many an occasion.'

So what exactly is bigotted about my comment?



Warwick_Hunt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:06
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Whatís your take on this,( racists or Muslims donít bother replying, your views are worthless.)

Its about being tollerant of everything other than intollerance."

Did anyone else giggle at the irony in the opening post?

I think the poor fella is confused at what the Daily Star has been telling him.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:09
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Splendid stuff, simply judging a whole social grouping on your interaction with 5 of them.

Can I ask again that the jesujaffaknackers spewing their sandal soaked slop F-off my post.
The grown ups are trying to talk.[:P][:P][:P][:P]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 17:11
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"It always amazes me how you can dress up falling hook line and sinker for every thing written by power hungry religiopolitians in a little book a 1000 years ago and then decribed it as making your "own choice"
Safety in numbers more like, for frightened mental midgets."

People in the developed world are more educated now mate and they can choose to believe in whatever they like. If they choose religion then so what? So long as they don't wage a war on it then we'll get along fine. You need to read a different newspaper from time-to-time.

TEEBAG Posted on 13/09/2009 17:12
Stop the Islamisation of europe

the problem is when muslims see the state our city centres are in from 9pm - 3am 3 or 4 times a week. When they see gangs of chavs gathered at street corners drinking booze and abusing people. Do we really expect them to have much respect for us ?


In Harrow yesterday the muslims were tearing the place up throwing bottles and whatever they could get their hands on at the police,come on they are just as bad.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:14
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt,

I have given an example of a collection of people who happen to be muslim.

Of course they are not representative of the whole muslim society. Why would you presume i was inferring that?

On the other hand we have you who admits to not actually socializing or knowing any people who are muslim.

But its fine for you to make generalizations based on what exactly?

Guisborough_Town_Red Posted on 13/09/2009 17:14
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Islam isn't the problem. The minority muslim nut jobs ARE. They're the ones that give Islam a bad name, hence the fear and suspician and then the rise of the equally odious English defence league and the like.

The three main religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) share many simularities which allow moderates from all sides to be able to respect each other, yet all this is swept aside by extremists and it should never be like that.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:17
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Viv, thats my point, in a modern society religion serves a purpose largly to focus socially careing activity.
My more extreem rants are in response to people judging my post without reding my words.
Extreem islam is using the power within the non developed work of religious leaders combined with the frustration of youth within a marginalised sement of society.
Organised religion always was a meathod of control for the frightened masses, still is, just read some of the saddos on here.[rle]

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 13/09/2009 17:21
Stop the Islamisation of europe

the thing most likely to lead to islamic extremism in england is if a bunch of fat ugly c unts keep turn up outside mosques spoiling for a fighting

they are all racists. they are all ugly and thick and fat too. i think this may be something to do with why they are racists.

I want someone better representing England. Can we not have a bunch of people who are cool like jagger than a load of fat chavs.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:21
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Its about being tollerant of everything other than intollerance."


Do you know what you are saying?

You have doomed yourself with that opening statement.


What a clown.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 17:23
Stop the Islamisation of europe

You need to focus on those individuals then, and not dismiss Islam and the Muslim community in such a sweeping fashion.

You said at the start of your post that the views of Muslims are "not welcome" so how do you propose we sort anything out? Shall we use guns?

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 17:26
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt is embarrassing himself here. For some reason he is assuming that everyone who doesn't agree with his Daily Mail style rantings is a bible basher.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:28
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I know Old Gregg, i am not and have never been religious.

Joined in many debates on religion here and am firmly on the side of non belief, you die thats yer lot. No pearly gates, no virgins to fornicate with for eternity.

This mug borotmt hasn't got a leg to stand on here and is clearly out of his/her depth.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 17:37
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Is it my imagination or does Islam resonate with socialists?

I note George Galloways almost religious devotion to Islamic causes (but maybe that's just because his constituents are mostly Muslim).

Is it the idea of mass control of population perhaps? The idea of state control of the masses, theocracy or otherwise?

Don't think it's the subjugation of women. Though I suppose that could be a subconscious contributor.

Or maybe it's the idea of the capitalist West as the great Satan?

Whatever it is, Islam has terrific support among the more left leaning members of the community.

I suppose they'd say they're supporting freedom of religion. But just watch them react to fundamentalist Christians. People who generally do believe that you should "love their neighbour as yourself".

A different reaction entirely in my experience.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:40
Stop the Islamisation of europe

You two pompus farts , lazy middle of the road wimps like you two would allow people with strong organised beliefs to win every time.Which is just whats happening.
Im sick that every time this issue is raised an accusation of racism is made , followed by being told "what you are really thinking/saying".

br14, thank you for bringing sense back to the post.
For the record I have never bought the mail or express in 25years.
I was a memeber of the labour party for 24 years.
I saw the crass ignorance of the muslim community being courted by local politicians( no mention of womens rights lads, it upsets their culture)
You two just settle down into your false sense of security.
Out of MY depth?, very very wrong .
I can understand your reasonableness( mental laziness?) but I feel the time for consideration of the views of other whos aim it is is to transform the world is over.
Pompus gets the pairoyer![:(]

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 17:40
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Is it the idea of mass control of population perhaps? The idea of state control of the masses, theocracy or otherwise?

Don't think it's the subjugation of women. Though I suppose that could be a subconscious contributor.

Or maybe it's the idea of the capitalist West as the great Satan?"

You seem to be falling into the same trap as many of confusing Islam with Islamic fundamentalists. Islam as a religion is guilty of none of the above, these problems arise from fundamentalist governments or rulers twisting the Koran to suit their own agendas.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:41
Stop the Islamisation of europe

br14, i think most on this thread are not religious but understand that religion is key to some peoples lives.

I personally don't want to restrict their religion, borotmt does obviously.

Where do you stand on the debate?

Should people be allowed to follow their beliefs?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 17:44
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt- Maybe they don't go around bad-mouthing whole communities in such a bizarre way, something you seem to have nailed.

How do you propose we change things then if you won't speak or listen to Muslims?

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:48
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Splendid chuff "I personally don't want to restrict their religion"
well thank goodness for that, I bet the wole nation of Islam was awaiting you blesing.


worra pompus get

The muslim creed IS restrictive , dont you gettit?

Viv how much more do I have to understand about a religion that dresses it women in binliners?
How much more to I have to understand about a religion that would have me stoned for what Ive said in this thread?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 17:50
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt resorts to insults.

Considering you don't know any muslims or socialize with any what are you basing this information on?

I am guessing you have not read the koran, but from the sounds of it you are an expert on the subject.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 17:53
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"The muslim creed IS restrictive , dont you gettit?"

No it isn't FFS. How many times do you need to be told? People have twisted the muslim creed in certain countries to be restrictive for their own ends.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:55
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Insults?
what, calling you pompus?, read your own words pal.
sticks and stones ( or should that be stonings)

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 17:56
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt- You still haven't stated how you'd change things for the better.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 17:59
Stop the Islamisation of europe

islamapologist, nuff said, no point in carrying this on.



borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 18:01
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Viv, who said I had the answers?
Phuck me, you not searching for a new religion are you?[smi]

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:01
Stop the Islamisation of europe

This thread has not been a discussion, more a soap box for someone who is against a religion so much that they would not even welcome debate with a muslim.

If you don't even want to talk to a muslim i am fairly confident that you have branded every muslim a terrorist or an eroder of our civili liberties.

The lack of knowledge, understanding and humility you have shown is indicative of your state of mind and fear, or xenophobia.

Hide under the stairs, you obviously cannot handle the real world.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:01
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"but understand that religion is key to some peoples lives"

SplendidStuff - you've hit the nail on the head. It's the key to their lives.

The problem for non-believers of any kind is that their lack of religious faith blinds them to the effect on faith on an individuals actions.

While I'm sure moderate Muslims are valuable members of their communities, adherence to their faith may make them vulnerable to manipulation by those of a more extreme nature.

Ask them for example, for their reaction to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11. Many found it difficult to condemn the actions of Bin Laden, because they understand and sympathise with his motivations.

There's even a quiet acceptance of the actions of the 7/7 bombers, because while many are horrified by the destruction, they understand and sympathise with the motivations of the bombers.

But yes I do believe that people should be allowed to follow their beliefs.

I also believe that they should do so quietly and within the customs and regulations of their country.

The difficulty arises when the religious beliefs are in conflict with the customs and regulations of their country of residence.

The same is true of other religions of course, but the concentration of those religions or the cultural contrasts may not be as great.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 18:03
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Finally borotmt has realised how out of his depth he is!

If you have a genuine interest in this subject, read up on it, check out the internet etc...

Don't just regurgitate the same boring inflammatory nonsense the Mail/Sun/Express tell you to think.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:03
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Ask them for example, for their reaction to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11. Many found it difficult to condemn the actions of Bin Laden, because they understand and sympathise with his motivations."

I am sorry but i don't know where this bombshell was reported, unless of course you carried out a poll.


Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 18:06
Stop the Islamisation of europe

br14 - I have a certain sympathy for the IRA's aim of a unified Ireland, however I deplore their actions in killing and maiming innocent people. This isn't solely a Muslim issue.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 18:06
Stop the Islamisation of europe

borotmt- If you project the kind of bile you've stated as your opinion then i would expect you to have some kind of idea of how things should be moved forward.

I'm not looking for a new religion, just a sensible thought-process and maybe even a rational debate.

SplendidStuff[^] Nail on the head.

ZappBrannagan Posted on 13/09/2009 18:08
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"This thread has not been a discussion, more a soap box for someone who is against a religion so much that they would not even welcome debate with a muslim.

If you don't even want to talk to a muslim i am fairly confident that you have branded every muslim a terrorist or an eroder of our civili liberties.

The lack of knowledge, understanding and humility you have shown is indicative of your state of mind and fear, or xenophobia.

Hide under the stairs, you obviously cannot handle the real world."

I agree with every word of that SplendidStuff, but credit where credit is due, he did invent the word "islamomumbojumboist" this afternoon. Thats quite good for someone who probably addresses everyone with 'now then dafcun'

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 18:08
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I dont wish to be converted into a mind set dictated by a peadophile in a tent 1000 years ago.
You ignorant little man, I have stated several times that I have no objection to some one practising their own beliefs, it where they demand repect for it and wish to impose that system of belief.
I an sick to the gills of weak willed lilly livered appologies such as your self , by the time YOU see the change it will be to late .Why should I listen to the restrictive views of an frightend individual, be he muslim, christian or voodoo?.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:14
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"I dont wish to be converted into a mind set dictated by a peadophile in a tent 1000 years ago."


I think you are serious, not quite sure.

"You ignorant little man, I have stated several times that I have no objection to some one practising their own beliefs, it where they demand repect for it and wish to impose that system of belief."

Sorry i don't understand that rant.



"

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/09/2009 18:15
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"You ignorant little man"

Oh, the irony [:D]

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:22
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"Islam as a religion is guilty of none of the above, these problems arise from fundamentalist governments or rulers twisting the Koran to suit their own agendas."

That wasn't really my point to be honest.

So you would argue that states that claim to be Islamic - Iran for example - are actually fundamentalist?

I'd argue against that to be honest. I don't see Iran as a threat to the west. But they are an Islamic state and practise Islamic law. And I'd prefer not to have that kind of government, though I appreciate there are those who do.

And what on earth is Islamic fundamentalism?

Fundamentalism suggests an acceptance of religious fundamentals literally without interpretation in a modern context. In other words - less twisted not more.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:25
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SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:03
Stop the Islamisation of europe
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"Ask them for example, for their reaction to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11. Many found it difficult to condemn the actions of Bin Laden, because they understand and sympathise with his motivations."

I am sorry but i don't know where this bombshell was reported, unless of course you carried out a poll.


If you are still involved in this discussion please try and answer this sweeping statement.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:31
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"I am sorry but i don't know where this bombshell was reported, unless of course you carried out a poll."

You're correct. I don't recall seeing that particular statement corroborated by media. It's a subjective judgement based on personal experience.

But you just had to look around the world at Muslim countries of all shades to see ordinary people celebrating in the street as the towers fell.

The fact Britain has it's very own terror cells suggests that those emotions might just have been reflected in British communites.

TheBoy007 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:33
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I could do you a mini survey. Of my 3 muslim friends all where repulsed by 9/11. Having said that at a service just after 9/11 at Kirby College, when the Dene said God bless the dead, a young Asian fellow shouted 'and god bless our pilots'. So that %75 repulsed and %25 in support.

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 18:35
Stop the Islamisation of europe

It will all kick off proper with this.

Did you see on the news the other day the young muslims oh sorry 'anti -fascist' members throwing bottles and stones at the coppers?
They started the bother in Birmingham a fortnight ago too.

One young 'anti fascist' draped in jihaddy wear was informing us that ' the british were fighting fascists in WW2'

Aye m8 we were, we are now fighting pricks like you blowing themselves up on airlines.

zzzzz Posted on 13/09/2009 18:39
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Not a poll Splendid but I can tell you that from my own experience In Tunisia the majority of Muslims that I talked to, educated and un-educated honestly believed that Mosad were responsible for 9/11 and that "not a single jew died"

Oooo Posted on 13/09/2009 18:40
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I hate this sort of thread. Don't know why I am reading it really!

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:41
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"I have a certain sympathy for the IRA's aim of a unified Ireland, however I deplore their actions in killing and maiming innocent people. This isn't solely a Muslim issue."

So would your sympathy stretch to popping the odd coin into a hat passed around for IRA widows perhaps? As was done very successfully in parts of the US.

This is precisely the issue. At what point does sympathy turn into support?

And first you need the sympathy.

In truth just like Northern Ireland. It's really an issue of demographics. The more Catholics in Northern Ireland, the more likely it is to become part of Eire.

The Catholic voting population has been growing for decades and I believe is already the majority.

That's why the IRA was willing to negotiate. They already knew they'd won.

Anyway I don't really suppose Islam will have a major impact on Britain in the short term. Longer term perhaps but that might take decades.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 18:42
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'Aye m8 we were, we are now fighting pricks like you blowing themselves up on airlines."

I think comparing someone who threw a stone at a policeman with someone who hijacked a plane and flew into a building is slightly unfair.

In my experience of being on protests, the police are there purely to agitate and provoke people into doing something stupid, like the throwing of stones or breaking of windows. They get the media down, get the shots and there you go, the news coverage focuses on the negative action of a couple whilst ignoring the wider issue.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:45
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viv_andersons_nana [:D]

It's the other way round! The police might want a bit of action to brighten their dreary lives, but it's the activists that tip off the media so they can get a few column inches.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:45
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Ask them for example, for their reaction to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11. Many found it difficult to condemn the actions of Bin Laden, because they understand and sympathise with his motivations."


"You're correct. I don't recall seeing that particular statement corroborated by media. It's a subjective judgement based on personal experience."


So how many did you ask, or see on the news?

Percentage of muslim's?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 18:49
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The last protest i was on was the G20 summit protests, at the Bank of England, and i can tell you mate that it was the police who turned that day ugly.

They even killed an innocent bystander.

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 18:50
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The main speaker of this 'anti fascist' group is that female who turns up on BBC every time one of her brethren are arrested for having a milk bottle full of nuclear waste strapped to there undercrackers and also friends with the shoe bomber etc and most of the horrid little chits have that suicide bomber beard carry on going on and the head garbs, they do it to show there support for Islamic terrorism, i can't recall ever seeing as many muslims walking around dressed like that pre 9/11

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:52
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SplendidStuff. I only know half a dozen Muslims personally, and I wouldnt have embarassed them by asking how they felt.

Are you suggesting there was no sympathy for the actions of the 9/11 hijackers? These were men willing to give their lives for what they believed in.

Surely anyone in the community of Islam must be concerned about the fact US troops are stationed in the land of the Prophet.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:52
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Vosene i have colleagues like you at work.

'suicide bomber beard' [:D]



spacecake Posted on 13/09/2009 18:54
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does islamic

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 18:54
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"SplendidStuff. I only know half a dozen Muslims personally, and I wouldnt have embarassed them by asking how they felt."

So how did you come to this conclusion?

"
Ask them for example, for their reaction to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11. Many found it difficult to condemn the actions of Bin Laden, because they understand and sympathise with his motivations."

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 18:54
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The beard thing is a symbol of jihadi fighters.
There is no Gillette in tora bora pal.

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 13/09/2009 18:54
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Your wasting your time here boro, as the socialists have always supported terrorists.

HAMAS

PLO

ANC

IRA

nothing changes[:I]

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:56
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"The last protest i was on was the G20 summit protests, at the Bank of England, and i can tell you mate that it was the police who turned that day ugly."

So there was no damage to shops, banks etc?

The police may be stupid enough to react, but the activists are there goading them. Nothing better for the cause than video of police battering some beardy bloke that looks like he couldnt hurt a fly.

There are no innocents. You may not want to be associated with violence, but once you have a crowd you create the environment for those that do.

TheBoy007 Posted on 13/09/2009 18:58
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"There are no innocents."

What even the Newspaper selling who got murdered by a bobby on his way home from a days graft?

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:01
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"So how did you come to this conclusion?"

Are you suggesting that there was no sympathy for the 9/11 hijackers cause among British Muslims?

And if not, how do you explain the 7/7 attacks?

I've apologised for my subjective comments. Perhaps you'd care to answer my question.

Your obsession with what was a minor point suggests you may have a better idea of the percentage.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:03
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Out of context TheBoy007.

If you protest you associate yourself with those who manipulate protests to their own end. On either side.

That bloke that was killed would never had died had protestors not tried to disrupt the summit.

They're not the killers, but they were a causal factor.

spacecake Posted on 13/09/2009 19:04
Stop the Islamisation of europe

does islamic

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:06
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Are you suggesting that there was no sympathy for the 9/11 hijackers cause among British Muslims?"

No of course not, but i did not speculate as to the amount of sympathisers.

You did and that is a major difference between us.

You are presenting information as factual when you have no factual information.

I have done none of this.

I accept there are extreme muslims in this country as there are extreme of any any belief system, not just that of religion.

spacecake Posted on 13/09/2009 19:07
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I don't get this, I'm being censored for what reason?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 19:07
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br14- I'm saying that the demonstration started peacefully at London Bridge and headed into the City. Once we were there, the police surrounded everyone and refused to let anyone leave the square they had designated for us. Anyone, men and women, who spoke to them were given short-shrift and told they weren't going anywhere. The demonstration continued, peacefully and did so for around an hour, until the police started the pushing and jostling. A huge group of people with police both in front of and behind them, being pushed back and forth. There is very little you can do when they start waving their batons around.

Yes, things were broken, i think a window at RBS was smashed but the whole event was co-ordinated by the police and the media. Things only turned ugly after police provocation. Their manipulation ruined the valid arguments of thousands and thousands of people.

They killed an innocent man, beard or no beard. Can you imagine the implications if a police officer had been killed?

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 13/09/2009 19:09
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I actually thought borotmt was interested in reasoned debate when this thread started but he has proved himself about as far removed as is possible from the tolerance he claims to have.

"I have stated several times that I have no objection to someone practising their own beliefs, it where they demand repect for it and wish to impose that system of belief.

Which Muslims have demanded respect from you personally for practising their beliefs? and who has tried to impose that belief system on you? Is someone frog-marching you down to a mosque twice a week and pray to allah?

The fact that there are young Muslims prepared to sacrifice their lives in an attempt to damage Western society means it is an issue and it should be addressed. But grouping all moderate muslims in with the extremists and trying to drive them out the country is a sure fire way to increase the alienation and make the recruiting job of extremists easier.

Tolerance is about understanding and compromise. You show no desire for either.

TheBoy007 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:11
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"Out of context TheBoy007."

I don't believe it is. He died due to overly aggressive policing. The Police thought he was a protester and treat him like one which in mine and the majority of peoples opinions was way over the top.

"That bloke that was killed would never had died had protestors not tried to disrupt the summit"

What so we shouldn't protest?? We should just accept our lot and get on with it? Thank feck not everyone thinks like that.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 19:12
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"That bloke that was killed would never had died had protestors not tried to disrupt the summit."

You could say that if banks and politicians had been behaving correctly with other peoples money then that man wouldn't have died.

Either way, the police killed him.

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:12
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''Tolerance is about understanding and compromise.''

Muslim countries know all about that don't they?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:13
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Heard everything now, its the protestors fault the police killed an innocent man!!


br14, you really have this all wrong.

gerry_mander Posted on 13/09/2009 19:14
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borotmt your looking for a 21st century Spanish Inquisition.

TheBoy007 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:16
Stop the Islamisation of europe

''Tolerance is about understanding and compromise.''

"Muslim countries know all about that don't they?"

Hang on, are you saying we should follow their lead?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:17
Stop the Islamisation of europe

vosene is scared.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:18
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"What so we shouldn't protest?? We should just accept our lot and get on with it?"

It's your right to protest, though it seems Labour seems to want to control protests more rigorously than in the past.

I'm just not sure what is achieved other than promoting someones cause in the media. Gets a few votes for one or two activist politicians.

Of course the police action was over the top. But that action is indirectly caused because a few hundred police have to control several thousand protestors.

While you may be a peaceful protestor, the police cannot tell that. You could be carrying acid, or a gun or similar.

Next time you go to the Boro, try to imagine what it would be like to be part of a small group trying to control 20,000 angry fans. Naturally adrenalin rises and sometimes things go too far.

I have no problem with people protesting. Just don't get all pious when something goes wrong as a result.

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:19
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scared lol of what?

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:19
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"I'm just not sure what is achieved"


Never mind.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:22
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A few hundred police!!



Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:22
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We should stop being so tolerant of the bearded little runts.

No jihad casuals scare me.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:23
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vosene you are obviously scared.


Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:24
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lol

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:25
Stop the Islamisation of europe

so what is your prime motive for being anti-muslim if not fear?

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:25
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"You could say that if banks and politicians had been behaving correctly with other peoples money then that man wouldn't have died."

Also a causal factor. But less direct.

Noone forced the protestors to protest. Buy they did anyway - as is their right.

And so police were needed because crowds left to their own devices tend to become extreme. Witness the smashing of windows etc.

The guy was killed by police that were over zealous. I don't suppose the officer intended to kill, though he obviously was out of control.

No protest. Or protest of a different kind, and the guy would still be alive.

The police may have killed him. But the police wouldn't have been there if there wasn't a protest.

Certainly doesn't make the protesters responsible. But you cant argue they create the conditions in which the guy was killed.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 19:27
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Protestors - smashed window.

Police - killed a man.


I cannot see the balance here.

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:29
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Im not anti muslim, i'm anti seeing Islamic fundamentalists parading around the streets and no one seems to do anything about it.
Even our own broadcaster BBC shimmy's any adverse muslim news away from us.
If the government came down hard on them and kicked out the ones who are obviously stirring things up you wouldnt end up with fascist groups and BNP getting in to power, or is that me being scared?

The_same_as_before Posted on 13/09/2009 19:36
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I am for all religions, pragmatists, agnostics, anti-religistics (made that word up) liberals, However I despise all Fundementalists

Vosene Posted on 13/09/2009 19:38
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Sadly the freedom of speech and human rights laws in this country are being abused by certain people from both sides of the coin.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 19:41
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"Certainly doesn't make the protesters responsible. But you cant argue they create the conditions in which the guy was killed."

I can argue with that, as i said on an earlier post the protest was completely peaceful until the police decided to provoke people. The police, by being so aggressive and provocative, created the conditions in which the man was killed, not the protestors.

ThePrisoner Posted on 13/09/2009 19:43
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br14

Drop your copy of The Daily Mail and back away [^]

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:46
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"You are presenting information as factual when you have no factual information."

My point about sympathy for 9/11 hijackers wasn't intended to be restricted to the UK, but rather to Islam in general. I admit I have no evidence for that statement other than an assumption based on the scenes broadcast on TV.

My point is that those with a secular background simply do not understand the strength of belief of those who fervently, if generally fairly quietly, adhere to a belief.

And when those beliefs are at odds with the cultural norms in which they find themselves, there are occasional conflicts.

Honour killings might be an example. I imagine in some countries honour killings might be looked upon sympathetically though for the life of me I don't know why.

That doesn't mean that individuals shouldn't be free to adhere to any particular religion, so long as their adherence does not come into conflict with the laws of their country of residence.

And as the numbers of people of specific minorities increase, then they will vote for politicians that support their point of view.

For example I understand that although not official, Sharia law is practised in some areas of Britain. And no doubt over time British norms and law will change to take account of growing cultural minorities.

And if those numbers are focussed in a particular constituency, then that constitutency MP will naturally have to present the views of his constituents.

Therefore it is a simple extrapolation to suggest that in time a significant growth in the number of Muslims in the UK would result in a more Islamic society. This is as it should be in a democracy.

I suppose you could apply the same principle to other dogma. So if you want a Green MP all the Greens should move to the same constituency. It's a quirk of the British system. With PR it happens even more quickly.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 19:51
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"I cannot see the balance here."

Who said anything about balance.

Protestors present = Police present.
Police - killed a man.

Not the first time the police have killed an innocent in Britain of late.

I prefer to give Policeman with weapons as wide a berth as possible.

mattrich Posted on 13/09/2009 19:52
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Just reading this thread shows how far away both sides are in this arguement, and the lack of understanding of the subject, a person who plays 5 a side with a couple of asian lads considers himself an expert on Islam, perhaps you should get a job with the CIA with your knowledge. The worrying thing about this thread is (as in daily life) if you bring the subject up you are considered a racist, and the people who are terrifed of being considered a racist bend over backwards to please the minority, with the outcome that both parties end up unsatisfied.
I have spent time working in Muslim countries, and developing countries where the spread of extreme Islamists spreads daily with the promise of quick rewards to punish the western world, where men are quickly recruited by Al Queda from their poverty stricken lives, do a quick internet search to see how many Queda members have being caught and originate from Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea etc. Before the mid 1990's this would never have happened, do some research into what Bin Laden was doing at the same time, certainly not as extreme as he is now, so what changed? and how can it get better(for all parties and religions)? Something has to change, someone has to get people round a negotiating table and reach a satisfactory outcome that will please people because we can't go like this, having Muslim men born in this country, yet willing to fight against guys they went to school with in the mountains of Afghanistan.

rant over.

Cyrus_Vance Posted on 13/09/2009 19:55
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'I hate this sort of thread. Don't know why I am reading it really!'

I know exactly what you mean mate. It's like rubbernecking a particularly experience.

Peace and love to all of all faiths and religions.


zzzzz Posted on 13/09/2009 19:55
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I'm scared splendid.

I'm scared for my kids kids living in a Country that has a majority of the population practising the Muslim faith, with a majority Muslim UK Government introducing Muslim based laws.

I'm sacred that they won't have the freedoms and choices that we have today and won't live in tolerant society that allows freedom to practise religion no matter what faith.

br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 20:00
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"the protest was completely peaceful until the police decided to provoke people"

Are you sure they weren't provoked in some way? After all, if someone smashes a plate glass window they must be using a fair degree of force. And I assume that causing property damage is illegal.

And would they even have been there if thousands of protestors were not marching in the countries largest and most populous city? No doubt intentionally causing huge disruption to millions of Londoners going about their business.

I'll say it again. The protestors were not responsible for that mans death.

But please recognise the part the protestors played in creating disruption to hundreds of thousands of people, and in creating the conditions in which extreme policing might occur.

Surely that was the point of the protest.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 20:28
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"Are you sure they weren't provoked in some way? After all, if someone smashes a plate glass window they must be using a fair degree of force. And I assume that causing property damage is illegal."

I'm sure they were not provoked, i was at the very front of that protest and the police started to behave aggressively once we had reached the Bank of England. They didn't act in this way until they had the majority of protestors boxed-in with nowhere to go. They did indeed smash a window and used a computer monitor to do so. They were allowed through to the front, by the police, along with many journalists and they smashed the window once the cameras were ready to roll. It was a stunt, a piece of manipulation manufactured by the police and enjoyed by the media. I only realised how much of it was a set-up when i was in Tesco later that afternoon and saw BBC News 24's coverage, where it was being portrayed to the public as a "violent demonstration" and hearing how protestors had "rampaged through the City" when, in truth, it was nothing like that. They made no mention of the aggressive policing and lead everyone to believe that the police were actually the victims of violence. The Government controlled that demonstration, they couldn't lose face in front of the world's leaders and their respective peoples and were able to spin it, until the news broke that the police had killed an innocent bystander and the video footage of police brutality started to appear. The smashing of a window, well yes whoever did it should be prosecuted but i'd be more concerned with making sure the policeman who killed a man was dealt with accordngly first.


"And would they even have been there if thousands of protestors were not marching in the countries largest and most populous city? No doubt intentionally causing huge disruption to millions of Londoners going about their business."

"Surely that was the point of the protest."

No, they wouldn't have been condensed into one specific area if it wasn't for the protest. But, the protest had to happen mate. People all over the world were/are disgusted by some of the scandalous behaviour embarked upon by the ruling classes. The leaders of the world were here and they needed to know that. One day's disruption is a small price to pay when it comes to that many people feeling so aggrieved that they actually take to the streets to protest about it.


br14 Posted on 13/09/2009 20:45
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And has anything changed?

I can't even remember what the protest was about.

Was it social rights activists complaining about the exploitation of workers in developing nations protesting next to union leaders hell bent on making sure their workers keep their jobs (i.e. stop work leaving offshore to developing nations)?

Two sets of anti-globalisation activists with completely opposite motivations.

Actually I think that might have been the Seattle protests.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/09/2009 21:09
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"And has anything changed?"

Well, the overall population of the world needlessly lost a member so yes, things have changed. The sales of Savlon and sticking plasters will have been remarkably high after many people were thwacked with police batons.

"Was it social rights activists complaining about the exploitation of workers in developing nations protesting next to union leaders hell bent on making sure their workers keep their jobs (i.e. stop work leaving offshore to developing nations)?"

The protest was, in the main, against bank bail-outs but attracted people with various issues to raise, such as the anti-war and anti-poverty movement as well as people who wanted to make our unelected leader know they were unhappy with his actions. Climate change and a lack of meaningful action was also on the agenda. As you will no doubt know, a protest on this scale will attract people with all kinds of axes-to-grind so yes, i dare say at one point there could have been two anti-globalisation protestors standing shoulder-to-shoulder whilst harbouring completely different idealogies.

That is the nature, and the beauty, of a protest on that scale. It brings people out and together, regardless of faith/belief and for one day they feel they can actually change something, whilst managing not to murder someone in the street.

People just wanted to show how sick they are of capitalists running the country into the ground.

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 21:43
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"a person who plays 5 a side with a couple of asian lads considers himself an expert on Islam"


Erm no.

I was saying that i have friends who are muslims, not that i am an expert.

Infact i know literally nothing othe Koran, but i don't spout off like i know.

I simply gave my perspective and experiences i have had in realtion to someone being anti-muslim but didn't actually know any muslim people.

Dibzzz Posted on 13/09/2009 21:51
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Better than watching youtube this thread, think I'l crack a can open.

By the way, yeah I agree, nip it in the bud.

scooby Posted on 13/09/2009 21:59
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"I'm scared for my kids kids living in a Country that has a majority of the population practising the Muslim faith, with a majority Muslim UK Government introducing Muslim based laws."

I'd say your fears were unfounded. Most people won't even go to church, can't see them suddenly running into the open arms of Islam.

Ironically, the so-called 'liberal' laws we have that people love to attribute to do-gooders are not going to allow that to ever happen given that most of these Islamic laws are directly incompatible with our current legal system.

borotmt Posted on 13/09/2009 23:42
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Hello peeps, just thought I'd remark on my absence, particlarly as some idiot had me down as a chav earlier.
Iíve been to Stockton Parish Church, to listen to a choral requiem, Iím not religious but can appreciate the beauty of Christian religious inspired music.
What I canít figure out is what beauty has Islam brought to the world
Half wits like splendid chuf cant even see the moral cowardliness within their words.
The extremists within the Muslim creed will push the world into a new dark age, thanks to sniveling weak willed juankers like splendichuf, unless they are stopped now.
Night Night now.[smi]

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 23:46
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Did they bring mathematics to the world[:O]

SplendidStuff Posted on 13/09/2009 23:49
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Night night, don't let the muslims get you.

br14 Posted on 14/09/2009 01:24
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"What I canít figure out is what beauty has Islam brought to the world"

Mathematics and some pretty cool architecture. Just wander round southern Spain. Driven in part by their abhorrence of graven images.

The problem is that many can't recognise the degrees of an issue. To them everything is black and white.

"Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity. [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]"

SplendidStuff Posted on 14/09/2009 01:28
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Do you have the power to love or love the power?

The scary thing for me is that people buy this notion that muslims hate non muslims.

This is perpetuated by ignorance.


zaphod Posted on 14/09/2009 06:26
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Living in Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, I can assure you that the vast majority of Muslims here are hostile to terrorist acts. The hotel bombings last month brought out a wave of disgust & anger against the bombers among the general public. Obviously there are extremists, but they're a tiny minority with few sympathisers.

I work with lots of Muslims & they are mostly decent, well-intentioned people, whom I find worthy of respect, even if I don't accept their religious beliefs.

Britain should not counter the intolerance of certain Muslim groups & countries with our own intolerance. I'm proud of being British because we are a tolerant & well-adjusted people in the main. The likes of borotmt & the BNP are rejecting Britain's history.

zzzzz Posted on 14/09/2009 07:40
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Scooby you're missing the point.

I too doubt many people will convert but sheer demographics , the rate at which those of the Muslim faith are having kids, will result in Muslims outnumbering other faiths.

zzzzz Posted on 14/09/2009 07:45
Stop the Islamisation of europe

zaphod, would you be happy for the UK to become a majority Muslim society with a Muslim dominated Government?

The_263 Posted on 14/09/2009 07:45
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I can concur with Zaphod, as a frequent business traveller to Indonesia - in fact had been in the Marriott weeks before the bombing this year - Muslims you meet there are moderate and never ram down their beliefs. However, bombings there coincide with elections and so are generally politically driven.

I think the UK has become too tolerant, not just with religious extremists but also with crime and punishment. I would like to see 'iron-fist' intolerance policy to instil some discpline into our decining society. The party to introduce this policy would get my vote.

zaphod Posted on 14/09/2009 08:47
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I wouldn't be happy to see Britain becoming a Muslim state, but it's a purely theoretical question, as it will never happen in the foreseeable future. At present comparative birth rates, Muslims would not become a majority even by the end of this century.

Britain defeated the intolerant devotees of Fascism & Communism in our society without becoming intolerant ourselves. We can do the same in this case. However, we should not shrink from applying the law to those who would undermine our society - and we should not hesitate to kick foreigners out if they represent a threat. Foreigners don't have a right to live in Britain & we should stop behaving as if they do.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/09/2009 08:54
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Zaph,

"Foreigners don't have a right to live in Britain & we should stop behaving as if they do."

Good point, well made.

Peachy Posted on 14/09/2009 09:07
Stop the Islamisation of europe

Personally I think it's only a matter of time before we see riots similar to those of the early 80's - this time it will be in the muslim enclaves. I don't think we can stop this. We live in a world full of propoganda and spin, young asians living in bradford etc simply do not get on with white working class folk. There is a lot of anger on the streets and extremists are clever at tapping into it.

MarlonD Posted on 14/09/2009 09:18
Stop the Islamisation of europe

We don't need a Defence League masquaerading as the protectors of our land, we need the vast majority of the law abiding and peace loving Muslims to start to act from within and start standing up to the extremists from within.

As with at the height of the IRA terrorist campaign, swathes of 'normal' people from within the communities know who the main people are but are too fearful to speak out.

borolad259 Posted on 14/09/2009 10:00
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I think we should de-christianise the UK first.
Organised religion is till a festering sore whether here, the middle east or the far east.
Dis-organised religion is ok though. "Who's got the bread? I brought the fish, but I thought you'd got the bread".

Dibzzz Posted on 14/09/2009 10:07
Stop the Islamisation of europe

De-religionise the whole world really. [^]

wherestheremote Posted on 14/09/2009 10:15
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"we need the vast majority of the law abiding and peace loving Muslims to start to act from within and start standing up to the extremists from within.

There is evidence that this is happening.



Link: Times on line

spurticus Posted on 14/09/2009 10:54
Stop the Islamisation of europe


I too doubt many people will convert but sheer demographics , the rate at which those of the Muslim faith are having kids, will result in Muslims outnumbering other faiths.


I reckon u could be right


Link: Breed or your fooked

HolgateSpikes Posted on 14/09/2009 10:59
Stop the Islamisation of europe

I read the first dozen or so posts...

What a boring fcuking thread [V]

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 14/09/2009 11:26
Stop the Islamisation of europe

""we need the vast majority of the law abiding and peace loving Muslims to start to act from within and start standing up to the extremists from within.

There is evidence that this is happening."

That article is from 3 months ago! There was more violence last week and it will only get worse!

towz Posted on 14/09/2009 11:30
Stop the Islamisation of europe

"I too doubt many people will convert but sheer demographics , the rate at which those of the Muslim faith are having kids, will result in Muslims outnumbering other faiths."

To be honest I couldn't give a XXXXXX

zaphod Posted on 14/09/2009 11:42
Stop the Islamisation of europe

spurticus, mathematics would suggest you're wrong, as Muslims are only 3% of population now.

wherestheremote Posted on 14/09/2009 12:32
Stop the Islamisation of europe

spurticus:


Link: muslim demographics debunked